The Empowering Humility Podcast

Dolores: Welcome to Empowering Humility,
where we're on a mission to promote human

flourishing by restoring humility as
a common denominator in society today.

Let's dive in.

Giancarlo Newsome: Welcome to
the Empowering Humility Podcast.

I'm Jean Carlo Newsom and I'll
be your host for this podcast.

Uh, and it is just a refresher
for those new to the podcast, we

explore how technology, especially
AI and Web3 protocols, and today,

neuroscience can be used to
strengthen virtue rather than vice.

I was talking to Scott A.

Little earlier.

I think we all know that there's too much.

Uh, technology that's been created
to exploit human weakness for profit.

So Scott is one of my dear
friends who I'm thrilled with to

introduce him to our audience.

And um, but before we go into that, let
me just share a little more for context.

Uh, we, at e Humility, we believe
the first virtue we need to help

restore to society is humility.

Uh, we believe it is the
root of everything good.

And so we challenge you to.

To show us if we're wrong and we bet
that, um, we will show you that if you

can create an active habit of humility, it
will bring many good things to your life,

your leadership, your work, your school.

Um, everything sounds like hyperbole,
but again, show us where we're wrong.

Um, also just to refresh all our
guests, um, we're really proud to.

Um, promote them in that they
have demonstrated a life,

a kind of a selfless life.

And that's not to, um.

All of them.

You'll notice that if I say that,
they might even cringe because it's,

it's so, uh, it's an antithesis to who
they are, is they just love serving.

But I just wanted you guys to know that,
um, that's the character of our guest

today, and that especially matches Scott
Fitzgerald, who you'll meet here with me.

So in this light today, I'm excited
to have my longtime friend Scott

Fitzgerald, with us to discuss the
leadership advantage of humility.

How does humility affect leadership
and a look at neuroscience for

corporate and human flourishing.

Um, so welcome Scott to the
Empowering Humility Co podcast.

Scott Fitzgerald: Hello, Ian Carla,
thanks again for inviting me.

This has, this has been on my mind.

Very excited to be here, and I really
appreciate what your mission is and

what you guys are trying to accomplish.

Giancarlo Newsome:
Awesome, awesome, Scott.

Um, again, you've been
a mentor and influence.

Your thumbprint is all over.

Everything we've done when
we used to work together.

Um, your leadership, your humility,
um, and I would argue some of the

fun results we shared together in
our past corporate life was directly

related to, uh, the humility that
we were able to be a part of.

So, um, but to give some context
for who you are, um, and who I

am and how we know each other.

So for the audience we met while we
were, we were pedaling helicopters

together for a major aerospace
manufacturer, and we both are.

Are big fans of helicopters
and that type of tech.

And, um, when we met, uh, you hadn't
lo been, uh, there also very long

and you had, uh, recently returned
from a combat tour in I Iraq.

We really appreciate your service.

Um.

And, uh, and then, uh, fast
forward, you and I both, we ended

up stepping out of aerospace.

And then next thing you know, staying
in touch, you and your sweet bride

founded SNS Fitzgerald Enterprises.

And I understand you guys are delivering
cutting edge neuroscience based

leadership development solutions.

To organizations worldwide.

And I, you know, I love
watching you speak.

Uh, I love the, the, the testimonies,
you know, when we catch up to hear

the, the results of your, of your
humble executive coaching and,

uh, you know, it's pretty awesome.

I appreciate you coming and taking
some time to share with our audience.

'cause, you know, um.

I'm, I'm sure last week in
knowing Scott, he's, he's coaching

executives from a major airlines.

You've flown on national hotel chains,
national railroad corporations.

Like he's the type of guy
that can encourage, um, a

homeless guy on the street.

Uh, and the very next moment encourage
a senior executive and, and, and

not just encourage them in like the.

In, in like the therapy culture
way in, in like an exploitive way.

Um, when I've picked up on some of
the work Scott has done, I've really

admired how it's, it's, it's gone
beyond that executive coaching when

he truly, it's, it's, it's contagious.

So, um.

You know, Scott, tell us, tell
us how you got to this point.

You know, you wrote a book in this
process, so one book is called

Understand Your Brain for a Change,
and, and I saw another one that I, I I

wasn't, uh, aware of called Understand,
understand Your Brain on its Own at Work.

Um, tell us kind of how you got
here and, um, you know, as you can

weave in how humility plays a, a
key role in your executive coaching.

Scott Fitzgerald: Okay, well first of
all, wow, thanks for that introduction.

Uh, it, it, it's a, it is a
humbling experience to even have

to hear those things come back.

Uh, you know, it's, it's.

We've known each other for several years.

You're right.

Um, and to answer your question,
so how did I get into this?

Well, it's a, it's a great question.

Um, in 2003, um, I suffered
a, a, a massive stroke.

Um, in fact, you may remember this
because you actually sent me a poster.

Uh, I was in a, I was in a foreign country
at the time, and, uh, you made a poster.

You went around and had everybody
put their comments and names on it.

And when I returned.

Uh, you had, uh, you gave it to me.

It was a, it was kind of a get well card,
but I had to get back into the United

States after my stroke in order to get it.

And, and you had, you
had spearheaded that.

So I was always grateful, but
that was such a pivotal time

because during that time I became
completely fascinated with the brain.

Um, I had a, uh, a blood clot that
went to the back of my brain and it.

And it caused me not to be able to walk.

And there's a series of
things that go with that.

But, uh, mainly most important thing
was, uh, watching through the lens of

first person, um, how the brain worked
to learn to do things again, that had

been knocked offline, if you will,
based on the, the, the stroke and.

That was the beginning of a
journey I had no idea would start.

And at that time I was a senior
executive in the, in this

aerospace company we talked about.

And um, when I, when
I came back to the US.

I found that I, I, not only
the healing self, but what

healing process was interesting.

I found a fascination with the way the
brain not only healed, but then the,

the way that I saw the world afterwards.

Now, some of that was through the
remapping, but some of that was also

through having been humbled by, by
something that happened inside my

body that I had no idea was gonna
happen, and there's nothing more power.

Go ahead.

Giancarlo Newsome: uh, a switch?

Small tangent.

It completely related, unrelated.

Every time I get on an airplane now,
and this is our audience, I get up

and walk and move from Scott's story.

So if you don't take anything else
from this, get up and move because

you were how young you were, 40.

Scott Fitzgerald: I was, I was
about 40 years old at the time.

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

Yeah.

So anyhow, sorry, I didn't mean
to, but like, hey, a public

service announcement live.

So, so yes, back to August is
something surprised you, humbled you.

And by the way, audience, Scott, um.

He's a humble guy, but he also
was, I mean, practically speaking,

kind of a, a, a rockstar in,
in that corporate environment.

And we had another colleague that
worked with us there that ended

up becoming president of other
majors, was like we were among some,

you know, I, I know Scott Doesn.

I mean, there's some credit we can take.

It doesn't, it's not good to do that.

Right.

Because there's so many other factors.

But, um, I just wanted to add emphasis
to when you said you were humbled

'cause you were truly top of your
game and you've actually, um, con

there was a very humble, I just wanted
to give, kind of, give context to

just how humbling that event was.

Scott Fitzgerald: Well, it certainly
was, and especially when it comes

to when you, when you realize you,
you aren't necessarily in control of

everything that happens to you, but
it, how you choose to respond to it

makes the happening useful or not.

And in this case, um, you know, you
never wanna let, you never want.

Tragic story go without a good ending.

So in this case, I was fortunate
enough to recover very quickly.

Um, a lot of that came with the
fact that spent way too much time on

bicycles and, and staying in shape.

Uh, that had a lot to do with it.

But that was the first step to several
that led me to have a, a heart change

from being in a senior executive role to.

Wanting to help those around me in
a way that I knew I needed and I was

seeing it happen that others needed.

And that was an opportunity
to have someone who would

have the coaching skills.

Based on the ability to ask questions
and listen carefully to the answers.

Um, I, I, I tell my wife all the
time, and, and she sort of jokes

about this, is that when you figure
out that your competency is never

going to be, um, number one in
anything, but you find your curiosity.

Can actually be fascinating to others.

Um, I, I shifted from trying to be the
smartest person in the room to trying to

be the most curious person in the room.

And, um, what I found very, very
quickly in this business was

that, uh, every executive I worked
with, every leader, every call it

manager, wanting to be a leader.

And by the way, those two are
not necessarily the same thing

is watching them say, I have no
one I can talk to about this.

And letting them become vulnerable enough
that they are willing to allow you to ask

the hard question and they are willing
to answer it knowing that this is not

about judgment, it's about revelation.

Um, this is based on the fact that we,
we have a story that we tell ourselves

either about the world around us or
about ourselves, and we are responding

to that story, whether it's true or not.

So as a, as a coach, my job now, and,
and this is what I discovered, not

only from the brain injury, but then
getting into school where I became.

Um, much smarter about how the brain
worked and, and saying, I'm gonna

approach this business differently
by, let's start with the intelligence,

and in that we will find the heart.

Um, and that's why my mission, which I
found in 2007, was to teach and inspire

leaders to lead from their heart as
well as their head, and, and being

able to tie the things that mattered.

To the, the way the brain function,
um, was something that I found

leaders were really good at.

They, once you start making those
connections or perhaps they start

making those connections, it becomes
more useful in the circumstances where

they actually have to implement it.

Um, and part of that is a leader saying.

Uh, I'm curious as to why I react
a certain way, or I'm curious as

to why I respond a certain way.

And then you take someone like that and
you start to explain the part of the

brain that's operating in the reaction
and the part of the brain that's actually

operating in the response, knowing that
they're only inches from each other, but

the results are typically miles apart.

Giancarlo Newsome: No, I love that.

That's, that's brilliant, Scott.

I was gonna say, um,
it's almost like the, um.

Well, well, two, two
thoughts come to mind.

One, you echo a, a previous guest, uh, Dr.

Ernesto Oli, who also prides, you know,
I, I, I think I shared previously,

he's got the, um, that TEDx, if you
wanna help someone shut up and listen.

So you model that he also, that curiosity
and of, of finding that beauty within.

And it sounds like, you know,
you facilitate, um, humility at

a, at a self-awareness level.

Um, and, and, and I kind of wonder if
you also, I think the pressures of the

American corporate world especially forces
us to disconnect our heart from our head.

Scott Fitzgerald: Yeah.

Giancarlo Newsome: And, and that,

Scott Fitzgerald: some truth in that.

Yeah.

Giancarlo Newsome: and, and I think that's
what, uh, you know, I've, I've watched Dr.

Oli work in an environment where.

Um, where you, when you can reconnect
a leader's heart with their head,

it's like giving them their life back.

Scott Fitzgerald: Yeah.

Yes.

I, I think you, you've, you've touched
on, uh, one of the most important

principles here, and that is.

Um, I, I, I found that most leaders,
as they, most people that are in

roles where they must lead, um,
find a freedom in finding the

purpose behind their leadership.

And that purpose means being humble
enough to pay attention to what the,

the, your surroundings, the feedback,
your surroundings are giving you.

Um, it, I think we, we've unfortunately
taken way too much of our leadership

training from, um, you know, war movies or
perhaps, uh, uh, things that are scripted

and life is full of unscripted moments.

And what happens to leaders
when they go, oh, oh my gosh,

I, I don't have the answer.

I, I can, you know, some
of them will tell me.

I, I, I, I get paralyzed when I, I
don't know what I'm gonna say, or

I don't know how I'm gonna respond.

And or rather react.

And a lot of the work that I end up
doing with them is around imagine what

happens if you respond, even if it's
with silence, because that in itself is

a response and understanding when, when
leaders are, are in these high pressure

roles, uh, this whole idea of divorcing
themselves from the role so that.

You know, their heart gets left over
here, but their, you know, their

head is, is doing all the work.

Um, what we fail to understand
is no matter where we are,

our influence is about people.

Um, understanding that the person
that you are dealing with comes from

their own background of, of noise
stories, um, their, their own mental

models of the way the world works and
mental models drive the, what we call.

Our baseline, and these are models about,
these are stories we've told ourselves

and they, they not only do they operate
passively, they show up actively.

And this goes back to
the humility side of it.

It is fascinating to me that
neuroscience has taught us that.

Um, when we perceive someone as, as
trustworthy or hu humble, that is

absent of any necessarily other markers.

In other words, it's a separate marker.

One of the most fascinating parts
of leadership is building trust

and vulnerability as part of your.

Your ethos and whether that's your
particular trust of being able

to trust others as well as being
vulnerable, or recognizing that

leaders have to become trustworthy
and trusting as well as vulnerable.

And I think that's where
the, the lessons gone wrong.

Uh, many times, leaders get taught.

You've gotta have all the answers.

I would submit to you that the
most effective leaders I know

are the ones that speak last.

And ask really great questions.

You it, you know, someone would say,
you can't boil it down to just that.

And I would tell you the science
behind it is pretty clear that

when you ask someone a question and
you're present enough to hear the

answer, they immediately trust you.

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Scott Fitzgerald: And when they trust you,
they immediately start to reveal more.

About themselves and, and you as
a leader have to be patient enough

to allow the ambiguity to serve you
versus try to cure the ambiguity by

just simply dictating the answer.

Um, there's a, there's a great,
there's a great saying in our work

that says people are best convinced by
things that they themselves discover.

And, and it's a, it's, it's
powerful because you, you, it

takes the pressure off of anyone
in my role to have an answer.

But more have a curiosity and
a presence that gives that that

leader a chance to be heard.

Giancarlo Newsome: So I, I love it.

The on mental models though,
like, like, okay, so let's say

we're all in agreement there.

We, but my mental model has conditioned
me to, I don't have that habit yet.

And one of the things we're pivoting
to with humility is this constant

of being like a digital gym.

So just as we go, like if you know my
physical therapist, I was having some

issues with like tendon reconstruction.

Like I was trying to fix that
model that that physical model.

Back to something where I could,
you know, run, uh, continuously.

I, she gave me specific exercises.

I think, um, in some of our culture,
the nihilistic culture where

what we do do, doesn't matter.

It's all relative, right?

That, that, that, you know, um,
being overweight is beautiful, right?

Like is, is can that it's, that
that can, that's a healthy thing?

Like how, um, a part I, maybe that's a
separate discussion, but let's go with the

assumption that we can make a difference.

We like our mental model.

This, this is a muscle.

How do, how do you coach, um,
leaders who are like, I agree a

hundred percent with you, Scott, but.

I can't get there, like when the triggers
I have in my head the way I react.

Um, I, I'm affected for the wrong reasons.

Scott Fitzgerald: Right.

No, that's a, that's a great question.

Um, you know, one of the things, and,
and it's a great question because so

many of us say, well, this is what I
believe and, and this is how I'm built.

And we, we pass it off as something
as if we're, we're, you know,

we're not in control of it.

Um, mental models are nothing
more than just belief systems.

Mental models create certainty for us,
uh, because our brains are built to

remove ambiguity as fast as possible.

Uh, in our book, we talk about it,
and I say our book because I, my, my

co-author or call it the, the, the lead
author, uh, was a guy named Phil Dixon.

And, uh, Phil was formerly
the head of it at Apple.

Um, and he was actually there when Steve
Jobs was the, you know, was the boss.

Um, and, uh, Phil and I, we, we had
a lot of conversations around this.

Um, but recognizing that our mental models
are just simply stories we tell ourselves.

And one of the exercises I'll do
with a client is we'll run a story,

we'll run a, a dialogue where
they get a chance to hear or read.

Their story, um, back after we've captured
it, they get a chance to read it and,

and throughout the timing, 'cause we
start, when you're a child, we start,

when you're a middle age, we start when
you're, you know, your older ear years

and we find out what are those models.

Now the reason why we go to that, 'cause
I'm gonna come back to humility thing,

is it's always interesting for me to
watch people read their story out loud.

That they in fact wrote.

And we have a way by
which we capture that.

And it's even more powerful
when people go, wow, I, this

is the story that's behind it.

Uh, a a lot of my beliefs,
and I'll give you an example.

I had an executive, uh, not long ago
who, who we did a, we did a mental model

run, and in doing so, he had a mental
model that said, I'm not good enough.

Now this guy's a CEO.

He's, he's.

He's banking somewhere just short of a
million a year and he's got stock options

that will put him where he doesn't have
to work again if he doesn't want to.

But yet he was, he had this mental
model of, um, I'm not good enough.

And there's a difference between humility
and self limitations or limiting beliefs.

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

Yeah.

Scott Fitzgerald: Um, and, and in
this case, he said to me, he goes,

well, it's good for me to say I'm
not, I'm not good enough because,

uh, I treat people differently
when I say I'm not good enough.

And when I did the interviews around
him, I found out that he was very, very

quick to shut people down when they
disagreed with him, or they were, he was

very, very quick to, to dismiss an idea,
especially if he didn't understand it.

Giancarlo Newsome: Wow.

Scott Fitzgerald: and when we started
looking at how that may or may

not be serving him, it opened up a
tremendous amount of possibilities.

'cause once he realized it's the story
of I'm not good enough, IE I'm not smart

enough, that he would condemn the things
that passed his understanding rather than

be curious about what he didn't know.

And that took it, that took him first
identifying that it was gonna be humility.

That would drive him to become curious.

And he said to me after we, we went down
this road, once he first identified,

first of all, it was really helpful for
him to go back and figure out where the,

I'm not good enough came from and, and
in this case, he had a parental figure

that repeated that on a regular basis.

What was really interesting is when,
when I would observe him in his work,

one of the things I saw in him, once we
identified that, that story may have been

said to him early on, you know, you'll
never, you'll never amount to anything.

You're a screw up, blah, blah, blah.

That was motivating for him because it,
it's how he, he, he attributes some of

his success to having had that model,
but it was the equivalent to flying.

At full afterburner all the time
and, and he would run out of energy

and he would burn up a lot of
people around him in the process.

And when he came to realize, when
I asked him, what is it you really

want, his answer was, I want to
build a sustainable business that

people really want to be a part of.

And he was able to put it in one frame.

And so we started going to, well then
what do we gotta do to make that happen?

And one of the behavioral changes he had
to make was recognizing when something

he didn't understand or something that
was said to him or presented, they

didn't quite understand initially,
one, recognizing that this was his

greatest opportunity to build trust.

Because at that moment, if he were
to ask, you know what, I need you to.

Break this down for me in
a way I can understand it.

He found out two things.

Number one, immediately the person that
was talking to him trusted him more.

Because he was curious enough to
say, I want to hear more about it.

And that's just appealing to the ego.

But the other thing that was interesting
is he found more and more people were

willing to come to him with a problem
because now he was no longer condemning

them, but actually listening to them.

And he said, if I hadn't have
gotten there, I would've missed the

opportunity to see how really smart
two of the people on my team were.

But.

I had always kept them at a distance
because now that I understand it, it

was because every single time I talked
to them, they were proving the story.

I told myself about myself.

Giancarlo Newsome: Wow.

Wow.

Wow.

That's, that's, that's awesome how
you would avoid someone because

you know that they will reinforce
that story and, and I, um.

I wrote down something, uh, and
this is a plug for EU milli for

those who don't use the app yet.

But one of the things we're really,
really, uh, like the core foundational

design is to write your story down.

And I put that in your words, Scott,
but that's what journaling does.

There's so much data that shows
talk, talk not to yourself.

Talk.

With yourself maybe.

And um, get to know who you are,
hear your story out loud, and then

we have the opportunity to share
with people you trust your story.

And have them pray for you
if you're a person of faith.

Right?

And then as you overcome
these self-limiting beliefs,

I also like how you qualify.

There's a difference between humility
and self-limiting beliefs that we

can, this, this neuroplasticity means
that our brains can change them.

We don't have to live with
the stories we've set, and we,

and those are opportunities to
celebrate and praise and so forever.

This example you mentioned will
have points of reference of praise,

that if you think about it, are kind
of like foundation building stones

as we, I think go to what Maslow
characterizes self-actualization.

Scott Fitzgerald: Yeah.

Uh, well, I, I think you're
right a hundred percent.

Um, I have the privilege of being
a facilitator for a program in

Austin, Texas, actually, uh,
called Discovery At, at you.

You can find it on www WI say www
dot uh, discovery programs.org.

Um, and it is, it, it, it was
a program that I chose to go

through after I had my stroke.

And it was a, it's a, it's a,
it's a, it's a spinoff from Dr.

Phil McGraw and his work, Dr.

Phil.

And, and in that program, uh, uh, and,
and as a, I'm a facilitator now for it,

we give people a chance to actually come
and spend a weekend, the first weekend

of three, looking at the stories that
they've told themselves about themselves.

And, and it, it is fascinating
how the results that they've been

getting are directly correlated
with those, that inner dialogue.

Now before, you know, anybody runs
off the deep end and goes, oh, we're

gonna have to change the way we think.

No, it is the change what you think about.

Um, and it's recognizing when you are
contributing to your own limitations.

Um, through the, the, the stories
that you've learned over time and, and

many times, we, in the, the Brain's
first job is to protect our, that is

the first thing it's supposed to do.

It scans the environment every one fifth
of a second, uh, looking for danger.

You have five times the neural networks
looking for danger than you do reward.

So when you create a story that is
full of, uh, limiting beliefs, um.

You are operating with that narrative in
the background, you mentioned plasticity.

You know the brain does have the
ability to adjust to the environment.

All plasticity is is a
response to its environment,

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Scott Fitzgerald: and that
is the environment, both

extrinsic as well as intrinsic.

Giancarlo Newsome: Wow, that you, you
know, in, in sales there's a, there's,

and again, I don't have the reference, but
it, it matches the, the comment you made

where our neural networks are five times
more sensitive to danger than to benefit.

It's the same thing when we say
that most sales, 80% of sales,

uh, appeals, or 80% of humans.

Are, act upon danger,
fear, uncertainty or doubt.

And only 20% take action based on benefit,
which is a really what you think about it.

If I think we're all wired to some
degree and maybe different factors.

But maybe to pivot just a little bit and
kind of level up, go, go kind of some,

uh, a little harder discussion, um, um,
is like we have a mental health crisis.

Um, you're fortunate and I admire all
the corporate executives who have the

humility just to even talk to you.

Right.

Um, and, and in, and in that, and in
that community, uh, that I think you like

the, the, the path to health is, is very,
maybe not clear, but it's pretty solid.

Right.

Scott Fitzgerald: Hmm.

Yeah.

Giancarlo Newsome: But what about
like the broader American issue?

We have, uh, one in three
are clinically depressed.

We have suicide ideation at all times.

Highs with our young ladies,
with, especially with Gen

Z, um, corporate America.

You know, I think we're increasingly
seeing how 75% of corporate America

will not be there in 50 years.

It, it is, it is.

It is, is absolutely squeezing
the turnip of, of value

against employees and clients.

Um, we have, there's basically artisans
and I was telling you one of the reasons

why I love living in Europe is Artisans
family business have gone extinct.

Scott Fitzgerald: Hmm.

Giancarlo Newsome: have
employee satisfaction.

I, you know, at very big lows.

Um, if you're not it, a corporate
executive, a government worker,

like opportunity for you as an
individual is, is just, um, low.

How do you restore conscious capitalism?

What are your thoughts about the influence
of technology negatively influencing

the whole, the whole corporate.

In business America, what are your,
your thoughts and suggestions?

I know that's a lot.

A lot, a lot in there.

Take whatever you want.

Yeah.

Scott Fitzgerald: I was gonna
say, I'm gonna fish a couple

of questions out of this.

Um, um, first of all, I want to, I
want to come back to your, your, your,

the premise that, um, that we are in
a bit of a mental health crisis, if

you will, from a worldly standpoint.

And I think there's several
things that have led to this.

And let me also let, let me preface this
by saying, um, I, I love William Dyer.

He's, he's one of my
favorite speakers now.

He's an old guy.

Uh, he's also passed away now.

Uh, wrote several books.

One of, one of the comments he
used on a regular basis was None

of us really know enough to be, um,
to be skeptical about the world.

Um, and, and, and, and I, I, I've
got that quote a little bit wrong.

Um, but, but the general idea
is that, um, I will tell you,

I think what we're experiencing
right now is, um, a, a crisis of.

Identity, and let me, let
me put that in perspective.

I believe if you go back in time, let's
go back, say in the, in the, call it the

1920s, um, I, I would, I would submit
to you if you could interview someone.

At the, at their adult age at that
time, uh, knowing what we know about

today, um, you would find there
would be a lot of people talking

about, wow, the world is at war.

We've just been through a depression.

Um, uh, how are people
gonna pay their bills?

We are in a sense of human crisis.

Um, if, if you could then fast forward
to today, um, I think you would

find someone would say, wow, we are.

Gathering information like we never
have change is, is happening so fast.

Um, obsolescence of people's roles
are in high threat now because of,

you know, this new evolution of ai.

Um, I would suggest to you, no matter what
decade you're in, this conversation has

actually been going on for a long time.

Giancarlo Newsome: Okay.

Scott Fitzgerald: And, and, and,
and it's in the perspective that we

can look back on time and see how
rapidly some things are changing.

Especially again, we're, we're all,
we're, we're, right now, we're in the

middle of what we call the AI crisis.

Um, we're all scared of it because
we don't know what it could lead to.

I would suggest to you when the, when
the first motorized vehicles came

on board, there was also a panic.

An entire industry panicked.

Um, and, and these are just
the natural evolutions of time.

The, the problem is, is we only typically
have a scope of it of, of somewhere

between 70 and 90 years, which is a drop
of time, drop of bucket, uh, drop of

a time in a bucket over a bigger span.

So my point being, we tend to look
at things in terms of the absolutes

of the life that we're in today.

And, and a failure to understand what
were people feeling back then, unless

you're willing to dig really deep and
find it somewhere in a written book.

Having said that, what I am seeing
today in corporate America when it

comes to, um, a sense of belonging,
a sense of community, a sense

of, of, um, mental health is.

We have learned to outsource much of
our social interaction to an algorithm,

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

Scott Fitzgerald: and that algorithm
plays on a chemical response to our

brains, um, in a way like no one else.

You know, we used to think that the,
uh, the kid in middle school, uh, who

was the class clown, uh, we liked being
around him because he made us laugh.

Right.

He made us laugh because there
was a dopa neurogenic and a,

and an oxytocin element to that.

Um, now most of us tend to find that
fix on a contraption, and I'm gonna

hold up mine right here, 'cause
none of us are very far from it.

And every single time we pick that thing
up, it is a very controlled manipulation

of the way that our brains work.

It, it feeds us.

It's, there's a reward that comes
with it, which is why there is

the addictive, uh, quality to it.

Because the very, very same chemical that
keeps you glued to it is the same chemical

that used to get us out to play baseball.

And, and many years ago, it was
that need for companionship,

that need for belonging.

So I think for me, mental health crisis,
the problem now is every baseball

game or every football game or every.

Activity we did in the years ago
always had an ending, and it was an

ending that wasn't designated by us.

It was an ending designated by
the construct of the event itself

and our social interaction in it.

Now our social interaction is at
our fingertips, which is why we

find ourselves, uh, getting that,
having to do more and more of

it over time until eventually we
feel blunted and, and we then go.

Why am I depressed?

Because the interaction
is, um, is not real.

It is, um, synthetic in nature
and therefore the brain is

still looking for that social
construct of where do I belong?

And we've got so much access to
information that says someone

else is doing it better.

Someone else has already
got it figured out.

We've got people in hoodies telling us
how to be multimillionaires, and that

goes very much against the mindset of.

Of what we, you know, what we
know before, which was all we had.

The only comparison we had were the people
in our surroundings where we worked.

Now we have the comparison of anybody
that can get a microphone, uh, uh,

a camera and a computer to work.

These are now commodities, and now
there's just no barrier to entry to

being able to be in front of someone who
is looking for a way to heal the inner

wounds by looking for an outer solution.

Giancarlo Newsome: Wow.

So I, that's a great perspective on kinda
like the corporate depression is, you

know, why, why resolve something with a
coworker when I've got my fix, you know?

Um, or even with my spouse
and, and, and so it's not you.

You know, I, some people will say, you
know, it's the greed of the corporation.

I don't know.

It's, it's more complicated.

It's not, and like, like you said, I
love, I don't, honestly, we, there,

there were some exceptions, but most
of the executive leaders I worked for,

they really wanted to do the right thing
for the customer and the employees.

And um, and, and I think, but
even as employees too, you know,

the, this is where humility starts
tying into the virtue of courage.

Where you, you have the humility to
say, Hey, this phone is not where I need

to get my, I love what you said that
I, I don't need to outsource my social

connection to this phone, this algorithm.

And it's really fun watching in this past
year, you know, the, um, Jonathan Height

with the anxious generation and this
movement of, of like removing phones from

schools and watching people, watching
kids like celebrate the opportunity to

get to know each other at a human level.

Scott Fitzgerald: That's absolutely true.

And, and I think that's, it's, it's
it we're, there's a bit of a full

circle aspect to this, and that is
the recognition that we are missing

our desire to be part of a tribe.

Because we are being fed, um, artificially
through something that has absolutely

no consequences or loyalty in our world.

And, and, and I think this goes
back to one of the premises

that we talk about in the book.

The Brain is designed
to be part of a tribe.

Why?

Because, and the need to, uh,
protect, participate, and predict.

Our, because those are the three
big areas that we talk about.

Um, our brains are designed
to find company and protection

in the people around us.

The same chemical that satisfies,
that level of trust comes from being

in that, in that surroundings where
people know your name, they know

what you're about, they know what
you do, they know your value to them.

But the reality is, is that we're
able to call it circumvent, that

when we're sitting alone on a bus
and we're scrolling our phones,

we're, we're feeding that same beast.

But it's the equivalent to, um,
a, a synthetic drug, uh, versus

a real one that lasts over time.

And I, and I just think that
I'm seeing now more and more.

I love your comment about, uh,
uh, schools now saying we're

gonna quarantine the phones.

Part of that was about keeping people
mentally in the room versus somewhere

else, but part of it was also about giving
children a social construct to interact

real time that goes beyond a 62nd event,
because that is where we find our tribes.

That is where we find our sense of
worth because it matters to us that

we have relatability to other people.

And imagine what happens to someone
who spends their time looking at

all of these things on TikTok or, or
Instagram or whatever the case may be,

about how their life could be better

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

Scott Fitzgerald: when the reality of it
is, is they have everything they could

possibly need in front of them, and
it's it, it grows to be a healthy thing.

One last comment about this.

One of the things I see in great
leaders is their ability to understand

the difference between a synthetic
moment and an and an authentic moment.

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Scott Fitzgerald: And that is they will
create authentic moments in people's lives

because now you're, you actually have a
greater opportunity now than even ever

before because you are the differentiator.

By having that engagement with people
one-on-one or one in a group versus where

they're typically getting their feeding,
which is the equivalent of a sugar pill.

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

Scott Fitzgerald: and that is
where leaders now today have an

opportunity to have an impact.

Because what, what all of these
social media pieces don't do for

us is ask us the question that.

us to create an answer that
is safe in the environment.

It's simply right now, it spends a
lot of time telling us what we're not

and what we could be versus who we
are and what we bring to the table.

And an honest conversation about that
is critical if you're ever going to

lead others, is you've gotta know
what you are bringing to the table.

And as a coach, one of the things
I love to do is ask the question.

Um, what happens if this happens?

Because our ability to predict is
the most advanced part of our brain.

So it's the, it's the part of
it that uses most of the energy.

You know, Al did you know that 20% of
your caloric burn is your brain itself

and it only weighs 3% of your body weight?

Giancarlo Newsome: Wow,

Scott Fitzgerald: And we failed
to understand the impact of

that, uh, that energy matters.

And our ability to connect with
the Gian Carlas of the world, or

to be able to connect with our
spouses or to connect with that

employee that's about being present.

And that's first about being educated
about what keeps you from being present.

And then imagine the impact you have when
you are smart enough to ask the question

and long enough to listen to the answer.

People think you're really smart when what
they say come out comes outta your mouth.

Giancarlo Newsome: That's a

Scott Fitzgerald: crazy how that worked.

Giancarlo Newsome: that's a great, great,
uh, not just a line that's a great truth.

Um, I, I really admire what you said
about authenticity and I think, uh,

I know all, any leaders, uh, on the
call will, will appreciate that,

that that is a real opportunity if
we live in such a synthetic world.

If you can level up your authenticity
right, it, it should help you

stand apart from the chatter.

And we, we were talking about a
previously, a situation, as I'm

reflecting on what you said, this
leader, uh, was so moved, I think,

and, and I and some other people were
so moved by some of the entrepreneurs.

I, I was, I had the pleasure to introduce.

I think what they got a taste of was
authentic heart and mind purpose.

These entrepreneurs, they like, they're
just trying to survive financially.

So it's not about the money at all.

They are so passionate about
wanting to solve a major

problem, putting it all online.

Their, their authenticity is just so
deep and rich that it was contagious and

liberating for those who got to meet them.

So I, I love what you said, and I
think another thing too just is to

kind of pile into the idea of, of.

How synthetic these algorithms push us
to, to be and, and, and how important

the tribe is, which I, I fully agree
and, and concur, and there's lots

of studies that reinforce that, is
that our tribe is actually even more

important than reality and truth.

Right?

And so synthetic environments
can reinforce maybe a, a, a

tribe that's not real, right?

That tells us what we want to hear.

Scott Fitzgerald: yeah, that's right.

You remind me of someone who
said, I'm, uh, he said to me

once, he said, I'm gonna stop.

Um, I'm gonna stop watching, um,
uh, TikTok because, because I'm,

I'm sort of tired of being, um,
being described as out of the tribe.

And, and he, he said, he says, I, I
don't think I need anybody to tell me.

I don't have a lot of friends.

I already know that part.

Um, but he said, you know, when I
consider my, my, my best wisdom comes

from somebody I've actually never met.

He said, I need to meet more people.

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

Scott Fitzgerald: Um, and, and, and
you know, something that, that, that

Stephanie reminds me of on a regular
basis, and that is a comparison, is

the thief of self-satisfaction and joy.

Um, because we're not very
good at truly comparing things,

apples to apples context matters.

Um, I will tell you that, that
in, in my work, and one of the

things I love about my work is.

When I went from being a corporate
executive to being in that place

where I was having to make decisions,
and you remember those times where

we were oftentimes making big
decisions with impossible information.

I would find that if I walked the
hallway and sat down with people

that had built trust with me, their
perspectives were very useful, and

I found just those conversations
de-risked a lot of my decisions.

Because I was willing to take the
time to listen to people who had

been there before, or perhaps they'd
experienced something before, rather

than have my ego say, oh, if I ask
the question, they may think I'm

not, I don't know what I'm doing.

I was shocked and there's, there's
some really cool studies out there

that show that when people seek your
advice, you actually trust them more.

And it's, it's, it, it comes from.

Being humble enough to say, I don't need
to be the smartest person in the room.

I need to find the smartest
people and put them around me.

And there's a, there's another quote
you probably heard that says, if

you are the smartest person in the
room, you're in the wrong room,

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah, exactly.

I love that.

I love

Scott Fitzgerald: Um, and so I think,
I think the thing when it comes to

humility, and it comes to leading.

I think we have, there was a period of
time and, and maybe it still goes on

today, I don't see it as much, um, where
humility was considered a weakness.

You know, we want the assertive leader,
we want the guy that's out front.

We want the, you know, we, we watch, like
I said, it goes back to these war movies.

We see people standing out front and,
you know, we're gonna make it happen.

And I think there's a, there's
plenty of examples if we look

for it, where great leaders.

Are willing to listen carefully
to what is being said and to get

behind what is actually the message.

And when they become more
informed, they become less inclined

to shut conversations down.

Because they realize that they're,
they are there for their leadership

skills, not necessarily for all the
knowledge they bring to the table.

And, and I, that's, that's a big
takeaway for a lot of leaders.

I've, one last story, I've got a, got a
leader I've worked with for years now.

One of the things he did, and
we had him do early on was to

sit down and write a, a speech.

And it was a speech that he would
write at the end of his career

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Scott Fitzgerald: the things that,
that really impacted him, the things

that made a difference in him, the
things he remembers, the lessons that

he took away, the three top lessons.

And this guy was, he's, he was in his
mid thirties when he, when he first

did this, and I, I just received a text
from him yesterday and this was now.

Now, almost 10 years ago,

Giancarlo Newsome: Huh.

Scott Fitzgerald: uh, meaning where he,
where, where he sat down and wrote this.

He said to me, he said, I, I'd like
to talk to you, uh, this weekend.

I'm going to a thing this weekend
where he is gonna be there.

He said, I pulled out my letter
the other day and it's amazing

how much of it has come true.

And he says, I convinced, I'm
convinced that it's because I

took the time to write it down.

And it, it became my reality because
I, I, I changed from reacting to what

was going on around me to responding,
and my first response was to write out

what I wanted this career to take me
to versus just going along and hoping

that someone would find my value.

Giancarlo Newsome: Huh.

Scott Fitzgerald: he is now in a
place where he's being very hot,

so high sock by other companies.

He's being recruited.

He's done very, very well financially,
but he says having something to go

back to that says, this is what I want.

I noted that of the 10 things I wrote,
eight of them have already happened.

I said, sounds to me like
you need to expand your list.

He said, sounds to me like I
need to understand that I'm not

necessarily in control of everything
around me except how I choose to

respond to those things around me.

Giancarlo Newsome: That's awesome, Scott.

I, my, in my queue of cool
questions is like, you know,

what's your postcard of the future?

And you kind of said, no, you, you
know, you kind of answered the question.

Write your own postcard and, and.

And, um, I, I also wanted, you know,
I know our, our developer teams,

they, they listen to our podcasts
and I think they'll find every,

our conversation day, especially
affirming for some of our priorities.

Like soon we'll be having
a, a place to put our goals.

In the app and some of our, my
trends, and you can monitor your

trends, you know, 'cause sometimes
life catches up to us in ways that,

you know, in some respects maybe you
were lucky for a hard hitting stroke.

But sometimes I think we can build
self-defeating thoughts so slowly

that until we can't detect it, but an
exploitive therapist or algorithm can.

Scott Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm.

Giancarlo Newsome: And, and you don't
wake up to the fact you've had a stroke

type event till after catastrophic
damage and reactions happened.

So, um, I think in our app there'll
be some cool features to, to the

audience and that you'll see where,
um, we have a daily check-in.

It is just reporting, how are you feeling?

And um, and then also one weekly
that's on the human flourishing.

Um, components so that you can maybe
catch if, if, if you're starting to

trend lots and lots of sadness, maybe
there's something to dig in there, right?

But,

Scott Fitzgerald: Right.

Right, and I, and I, that's one of the
things I, I love about having a structure

that the book gave us, which was this,
what we call the five P model, which says,

we first seek protection, we next seek
participation, which is our need to be

a part of something, a tribe, whatnot.

And then we also seek prediction,
which is the most advanced part.

What I find is that when people start
putting things in a common frame, they

start to have relatable conversations.

Um, uh, I don't, you know, it's,
it's not that we miscommunicate,

it's, we just fail to grasp the total
understanding of someone's reply.

And I, I use that as a joke because
we're, we, we lot times don't,

what I find, many people don't know
how to explain why they're anxious

or what they're really afraid of.

And it's always an interesting
comment when my question will

be, well, what are you afraid of?

Or what are you avoiding?

Um, and that's always hard when
somebody's never had that question

presented to them, but when they start
to recognize that there is a good chance

that as leaders they may be avoiding
something that's really important.

Okay.

It's great.

Now that you've identified
that, let's figure out why.

Let's, let's do some work to figure
out what's keeping you from this.

And, and I'm, I'm really big on
under people understanding that.

Humility is being willing to
ask yourself the hard question

and being willing to say,

I'm open to what I might learn
through my interaction with

somebody that I might not even know.

And, and that's where as a leader,
I don't think humility is weakness.

It becomes a superpower because.

As, and my father is the one I that
used to tell me this, and I'm not sure

who it was that said it originally,
but my father used to say, I never

learned anything while I was talking.

Giancarlo Newsome:
That's an awesome quote.

I, so we, we've got the, the marketing
team, they, they pull out quotes.

I, I, I would almost bet money
that you, you may win the award.

Uh, for like the most
awesome substantive quotes.

I, I, I love that.

Um, I also wanna restate the way that
you mentioned, and actually I think

it kind of, um, you can tell me if
this isn't a, a daily habit here.

It's one of our final closing
questions is like, what is your

favorite daily habit of humility?

And, uh, I'm not gonna speak for you.

Well, okay, well for a second.

But it, humility daily, being willing
to ask yourself the hard question.

Scott Fitzgerald: Yeah.

Giancarlo Newsome: if we did that daily.

Oh my goodness.

Scott Fitzgerald: Yeah,
I, I completely agree.

I will tell you that the question
that I tend to ask myself every

morning is, what is the hard thing
that I am trying to avoid right now?

Giancarlo Newsome: Ooh, wow.

Scott Fitzgerald: And I find that.

If what I have to do is, is I go,
okay, if it's, let's just say,

believe it or not, it's invoicing,
which is a mind numbing event for me.

Um, I have to say, okay, I know that
between 10 and 12 in the morning is

when I'm going to go get that done.

Why?

Because I, I, that's my optimal to
time to, to use my brain because our

brains go in rhythms and, and my, I'm
one of those that's very productive

in the morning and after lunch
that productivity starts to become.

I just need to do tasks.

I don't need to be doing
something that's heady.

And, um, so I'm a big believer in,
in what is it that I need to do

today that I'm constantly avoiding?

And, and what that does is it, it
seeks first acknowledgement and

then what it does is it gives me
permission to do something about it.

And, and that might seem trite,
but the reality of it is, is that.

Once I identify it, I have
to do something about it.

It's the absence of identification
that I'm just simply responding to

the c uh, to the, um, symptoms of it,

Giancarlo Newsome: I think in most cases
we, we do overcome small bites at a time.

Don't you think?

I mean, there's a lot of things I
still wanna, I wanna, you know, I

still at the same time am shocked at
like, I have a simple stretching goal.

Like I, I, I don't get my second
cup of coffee till I stretch.

'cause I'm an old man, I gotta
do it and I'm still not there.

But, but, you know, acknowledging
the problem, and I, I love, I love

the way your, your daily habit.

Um, I think I also find it really
cool, you know, um, I, now I, I've

lost it, but there's, there's some
common threads with our guests.

Listening.

Well, um, you know, uh, again, there
was one from Wade Preston who was

our last guest that I'm, I'm annoyed,
I can't remember, but that's okay.

Uh, maybe it'll come back.

Anyhow, I, uh, Scott, I really,
really appreciate your experience.

Um, so you, so if people wanna find
you, um, to learn more about you,

it's ss as in Scott and Stephanie.

Stephanie's amazing by the way.

Scott Fitzgerald: Yes, she is.

She's the, she's the brains
of the operation, so, yeah.

Giancarlo Newsome: well,
that's why she's not on.

She's making us both look bad.

And then, you know,

Scott Fitzgerald: Well, that's

Giancarlo Newsome: she's
a beautiful lady too.

So, you know, uh, just, um, we, we have

Scott Fitzgerald: say, I'll, I'll
put in my coverage as they say.

Yeah,

Giancarlo Newsome: so ss fits.com,

that's f foxtrot India tango zulu.com.

But also you mentioned
discovery programs.org.

Scott Fitzgerald: Yeah, and, and I'm,
I'm gonna do a small plug for that.

I'll tell you that one of the
other ways I got into this business

was in 2007, I realized that.

I was, I was making good money.

You and I were working together.

Uh, we were doing amazing things,
uh, in the aerospace world, but

I was, I was really not happy.

And I had to finally come to the
realization that I was the common

denominator in every one of my, um,
in every one of my circumstances.

And that included the ones that
weren't or weren't, weren't going well.

And so I actually went to
this program and it was.

Life changing for me, and that it
finally gave me a chance to look in the

mirror and realize that I had a lot of
control over how I choose to respond.

I was, I had made up a story about the
world that wasn't necessarily true.

And by going to this program, that
is where, um, I was able to sort

through perhaps the, um, the identity
statements that were not using,

not, not, not, not useful for me.

But then also I found my mission, and
that is where my mission was, uh, written

to teach and inspire leaders to lead
from their heart as well as their head.

And I thought when I first
got that, that was one of the

dumbest things I'd ever heard.

And and that became though over
time, the mantra to making the

shift to getting into this business.

And between the stroke and that particular
event, it's what was the baseline

for the business model that said.

Why don't, why don't I spend the rest of
my career sitting with leaders of great,

of giant responsibility and give them a
place where they could have vulnerability?

And in that vulnerability they
find their truth and in that

truth, that become the basis for
their leadership and their legacy.

Giancarlo Newsome: I love it, Scott,
I so team, audience, um, if, you know,

if you are a leader or normal leader
who wants an authentic executive coach,

I can't recommend strongly enough
Scott, uh, also and a powerful speaker

as well for any forms or events.

Uh, I can't wait to invite you, Scott.

We talked about some possible
opportunities we serve in the

military, and, um, I, again, thank
you so much for joining us today.

May you, me and all our leaders
listening, corporate, military startup

practice and enjoy more empowering
humility as Scott has talked about.

God bless you.

Thank you, sir.

Scott Fitzgerald: Thank you, sir.

Appreciate your time.