The Empowering Humility Podcast

Dolores: Welcome to Empowering Humility,
where we're on a mission to promote human

flourishing by restoring humility as
a common denominator in society today.

Let's dive in.

Brandon Giella: Hello and welcome back
to the third episode of the empowering

humility podcast again today We have
john carlo newsom ceo of humility.

Thank you for joining us as
always But we also have a special

guest today brian hedrick brian.

Can you introduce yourself
for our listeners?

Who are you?

Why are you here?

Bryan Hedrick: Thank you so much,
Brandon and Giancarlo for the invitation

to come and be able to speak today.

Um, a little bit about me.

I'm a activity army chaplain, but
I'm also a bit of an academic.

I have a PhD in leadership studies,
um, and been doing some work with

eHumility and Giancarlo, um, in a
consulting world to kind of look at

how does humility impact leadership?

How does humility impact the human being?

How does the, um, humility impact
Our overall happiness and our overall

ability to thrive within this world.

And so I'm really excited to be here.

Thank you so much

Brandon Giella: Awesome.

I love that you mentioned happiness
because that is in fact what we're going

to be talking about today So the title
of today's show is the happiness without

humility delusion And this came about from
a conversation that you guys had, and I

was just happened to be on this thread
watching it take place, but it came from

a newsletter that was published by an
organization called clearer thinking dot

org, and they had a newsletter that was
titled what you might be getting wrong

about happiness, and they had three main
points if I could summarize them this way.

First, happiness isn't just
about momentary pleasure, but

it involves life satisfaction.

Not just the moment, but the whole
entirety or some of the experiences

that we have in our lives.

The second point was money can
buy happiness, but its effect

diminishes at higher income levels.

That's really interesting.

And a lot of people have talked about
this for a long time, but it is kind

of a fascinating little factoid.

And then the third point is
happiness is partially within our

control, though constrained by
external factors like trauma or

bereavement and things like that.

And so you guys went back and forth
about, you know, what, what is happiness

and, and how is it related to humility?

You know, how do you,
how do you define that?

How do you think through that?

And so there's a bunch of different, um,
uh, points that you all were making over

a period of, uh, several days and weeks.

Um, and there's a lot of different
ways to think about happiness too.

And so I want to start here.

with how to define or think about
happiness, uh, for the purposes of

this conversation, because you can
look at it from a frame of psychology,

maybe biology or neurobiology,
what's going on in our minds.

You can look at it from a theological
or faith based spiritual perspective.

And so there's a lot of different, um,
definitions or, or ways to think about it.

And so, Brian, I'll start with you.

Uh, first question here.

What Is happiness and I know
it's such a huge question,

but how do you think about it?

How do you define it?

What influences your your
thinking on that topic?

Giancarlo Newsome: It's

Bryan Hedrick: no, thanks for
asking that is a go ahead Giancarlo

Giancarlo Newsome: and most New Year's

Brandon Giella: That's right,

Giancarlo Newsome: are kind of framed
around Happy New Year, by the way, guys.

Brandon Giella: Yeah, happy new
year january 2nd here we are

Giancarlo Newsome: That's right.

So I think, you know, that context
too, for what is happiness is some

awesome framing going into the new year.

So thanks Brian.

I'll also, by the way, for, for
joining us, really appreciate

your, uh, your insight.

Bryan Hedrick: No, thanks much.

Giancarlo.

So when I think of happiness, I
mean, I'm going to share from my

tradition, my background a little bit.

So I will bring a little bit of theology.

Like you mentioned, Brandon, into it.

Um, I, by denomination
and, uh, Christian Baptist.

And so I'll speak kind of that
framework a little bit, but

I want to expand beyond that.

Um, cause I know a lot of our
listeners are not necessarily within

that framework and that's okay.

Because happiness.

Is.

Something greater than just
a theological framework.

Um, I know in many frameworks, it
can be kept in a negative light.

Um, at its base level,
happiness is a feeling.

Um, it's a feeling of joy of excitement
of being, um, beyond just contentedness.

It's a, I mean, you mentioned
the biology, biological frame.

It's that endorphin rush that
we get when we are simply happy

about something that's occurred.

Um, The challenge with the word
happiness is that a lot of times

it could be taken out of context.

You mentioned the psychological
framework for a moment, because in

psychology, happiness, satisfaction,
and contentment, according to most of

the researchers out there right now,
have been lumped into the same boat.

They've been lumped into
the same categories.

And so when we say happiness,
satisfaction, contentment in psychological

studies or in many of our social
science researches, it, It means the

same thing and that's problematic
because they're not the same thing.

In fact, there's research now
coming out in the last two, three

years, they're trying to break
apart those constructs because

happiness as a feeling is different
than satisfaction and contentment.

Um, and I think we find this
from our theological framework.

Um, in my background as a Christian
pastor, Happiness is that feeling whereas

contentment or joy is a state of being,
um, which is a very different construct.

It's, um, I would say that
happiness plus content or excuse

me, humility plus contentment is
what we equal equate to happiness.

Um, whereas happiness is
not in and of its own thing.

A, uh,

A norm, if you would.

Um, I'd also say that one of the
challenges is how do we pursue happiness?

Um, do we pursue happiness
or do we pursue contentment?

And what is the difference there?

I know we'll dive into this a little
bit more later, but kind of just as

a quick teaser, pursuing happiness.

I know you mentioned there that money
can buy happiness, but it diminishes.

I'm going to push back
against that for a second.

Money can buy contentment.

It can buy the ability to, um,
not need anything at the moment,

but in true contentment, what true
happiness is, is not about wanting.

It's about not wanting.

And that's a big difference.

And so I look forward to kind of
unpacking that more, but at its base

level, happiness is just a feeling.

It's the joy that we experience,
when, from a biological perspective.

Emotion or excuse me, endorphins
are moving through the body from a

philosophical or theological perspective
when we're at a place of joy, where

the circumstances are that where we are
excited and happy about what's happening.

And from a psychological perspective, when
we're at ease and we're reduced stress.

Um, yeah, uh, I'll kick
it back over to you.

If that answers your question or
John Carlo, if you want to add

Brandon Giella: Yeah, Giancarlo,
what do you, what do you think?

How do you think about happiness?

And we'll get to, you know, talking
about humility and maybe contentment in

a minute, but just generally speaking,
how do you, how do you approach it?

What do you think about that word?

Giancarlo Newsome: Well, and I think,
you know, my context is also so

heavily concerned with the influence
of let's say AI and technology.

in fueling, let's say, false happiness.

So I like, like, if it's emotional,
it's temporal, it's almost like the

feeling of a drug high, a drug hit.

Um, you know, you could argue
that when you're high, you're

having temporary happiness.

So in that period of time,
hey, you feel just like money.

Um, but long term, what if
you're self destructive?

That's it.

And that's what, you know, I, I
think that's what kind of queued up

my concern in this conversation when
I read the article is like, okay, I

mean, we're talking scientifically
about, and I've seen the stats, you

know, I think, you know, you're,
you're the money you need to be happy.

Levels out at about I think it was 65, 000
like the more you make like your relative

happiness level Does improve slightly
but it completely levels out And but even

then I mean you could and this was one
of my questions to Brian is you know?

narcissistic happiness and you know how
we could be undermining ourselves and not

realizing it, which is kind of a creepy.

And that's kind of the
essence of pride, right?

Is you know, you're, you're so consumed
in your world that you don't recognize

it and you've become your own slave.

So it's, it's a really,
especially in today's paradigm.

So that's kind of my, Um, where my
head space is, but I'm not the expert.

One of the things I also wanted to
highlight with Brian, I really love and

part of the reason why I'm so happy.

He's helping our team

even in theology.

We can frame a different framework.

of happiness that can also be narcissistic
regardless of your tradition of faith.

And, and what I had, what I really
appreciate with Brian, not that he

intentionally did this, but the military,
they intentionally work to be pluralist.

And it's been a real struggle for me
to say, okay, how can we represent

our own unique framework of faith,
but be true to our, our, our, I

think collectively most faith have.

You know, most of them have a, have
a desire to be truthful at its, at

its most root call, root source.

So, um, I don't know, I'll let,
I'll let Brian or Brandon, you can

kind of pick up all those pieces.

Bryan Hedrick: if I can real quick, I'd
like to jump in and just highlight one

thing that you mentioned, Giancarlo.

Um, you talked about
happiness and narcissism.

Um, and I think that's where A good
distinction needs to be made here for

a moment is because a lot of times we
can either go to one extreme or the

other happiness is either something that
we are pursuing with all of our being

because we don't want to be unhappy
and that can become narcissistic.

Absolutely.

Um, when we're pursuing the feeling
at the expense of other things,

um, and this is kind of where
contentment comes into the picture.

Um, contentment means being the idea
where I am okay with my circumstances

now, and I don't need to seek or
desire and an unhealthy level.

Now we can, we're at the
beginning of the new year.

We're talking about goals and growth
across LinkedIn and everywhere else.

That's what's the main theme right now.

Um, there's nothing wrong with goals.

There's nothing wrong with the ambition.

The challenge becomes when we
measure our success or failure based

on a feeling such as happiness.

And that's where it can become
narcissistic in that way.

However, happiness in and of
itself is not narcissistic.

It's not wrong to be happy.

In fact, when we look from a
theological perspective, for example,

God created us for his pleasure.

There was happiness in our creation
as human beings, in our development

being made in the image of God himself.

Um, in fact, when we look at just,
Psalms and through the rest of

scripture, we see that God desires us
to be happy, but there is this idea

of contentment that goes with it.

Um, that I

Giancarlo Newsome: also
to make others happy.

And

Bryan Hedrick: Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

We are agents.

Happiness both being able to, um,
seek happiness ourself, but also

to seek the happiness of others.

And I think that's where the line
with the narcissism comes into play.

When we seek happiness of ourself
at the expense of others or at the

expense of all of those other things
in our lives that we have to have.

You mentioned, for example, um,
addictions and how we can chase

this false sense of happiness.

I would almost push back slightly to say
that there is some happiness found there.

The problem is that when you seek
after that addiction, the happiness

that you're seeking is at the expense
of other things that are just as

critical and important in your life.

So while you may find happiness,
what makes it temporal, it makes

it fleeting is that the damage
that's caused by what you seek does

not allow for long term happiness,
satisfaction, contentment in your life.

Um, that's why we seek after that next
rush, that next high, that next whatever.

And this is not just about addiction.

It's also about.

Individuals that seek, um, adrenaline
rushes, for example, or going out

and, I mean, I worked in the special
operations community for a long time

and watching individuals that were
driving way too fast on the road

or their motorcycles or whatever.

And there's nothing wrong with those
things, but they were chasing this

adrenaline high that they had reached when
they had, um, when they were in combat and

they couldn't replicate it in, um, in the
civilian world here in the United States.

So they went into risky behaviors
to try and recapture that because

that feeling of happiness that
they experienced, they coveted and

put others at risk as a result.

So that's where narcissism
comes into this equation.

The feeling of happiness
is not bad or good.

Um, intrinsically, it's
how do we pursue it?

How do we become agents of it
for ourselves and for others?

That is how we then categorize.

Is this healthy or not?

Brandon Giella: I would imagine some
of the, the soldiers that you've seen,

like what you just described, it's,
uh, they, they have that adrenaline

rush or they have that momentary,
you know, excitement, happiness.

It did bring them some, some of that
kind of satisfaction and purpose

maybe in their work, whether it
was combat or whatever it might be.

And because of that, their brains took
on this shape, you know, the, the neurons

that fire together, wire together kind of
idea where your, your brain becomes that

kind of thrill seeking excitement kind of.

Entity and trying to replicate
that but it's fleeting.

It's it's it it doesn't it's the thing
that you're seeking So I love that and

it makes me think too of this Concept
called christian hedonism if you've

heard of that Um, so john piper, uh
famous pastor theologian years ago I

think it was in the 90s or early 2000s
when he wrote this book called desiring

god And he flipped the first question
of the westminster shorter catechism

Which is what is the chief end of man?

And the Westminster version says
to, uh, enjoy, uh, to glorify

God and enjoy him forever.

And he says, the chief end of man is
to glorify God by enjoying him forever.

Which is to say, if you pursue God,
and you pursue your own pleasure in

God's pleasure, you will find that
kind of happiness, or that long term

kind of joy and contentment, some of
the things that we're talking about.

And what I find interesting about that in
this discussion is it's bridging some of

that psychology, some of that theology,
but also talking about Uh, humility

and narcissism because some people have
criticized him as saying, Well, you're

you're creating a hedonistic pleasure
seeking Like selfish kind of person

that they're seeking their pleasure by
enjoying god And he's saying yes, that's

exactly right Uh, because if i'm bringing
flowers to my wife I'm seeking my joy by

bringing her joy You know, that's the,
that's the argument that he's making.

And I think it's kind of this interesting
concept, uh, that kind of bridges all

these things into one, uh, one topic.

Now it's very controversial.

People have criticized him for, for
decades about it, but I'm curious what

you guys think about that, um, as a way
of kind of getting through the, uh, kind

of tying these, these threads together.

Bryan Hedrick: Yeah, I think
you mentioned it perfectly.

It's the idea of purpose and
meaning that is a derivative

that brings about happiness.

I mean, we're one of the key
factors in what makes happiness.

Um, That's one of the reasons like
Giancarlo mentioned with this false

happiness is that there's very rarely
a meaning or purpose behind it.

And so it doesn't have
something to anchor it.

Um, when I bring my wife flowers as
well, similar to what you mentioned,

it's, yeah, there's a pleasure to me.

There's happiness to me, but
it's in a meaning and purpose.

It's rooted in that sense of being a
husband that my wife deserves who I've

been called to be who her happiness
and her being able to see that smile

on her is a deeper meaning and purpose.

Um, talking about the soldiers that I've
served, they don't take pleasure in war.

What they do is they take pleasure in
the purpose that they've served in.

Um, what they've done has meaning.

It has, um, this sense of

connectedness, not just with the world,
but with the people that they were there

with, with a cause that they believed in.

And in that, even though there was
hardship, even though there is great

trauma, great difficulty, they were
able to, many of them walk away within

the sense of purpose and belonging
that translates then into happiness.

And that's really like I mentioned
before, where we look after

contentment contentment allows
room for, um, for negative aspects.

It allows room for suffering.

It allows room for pain.

It allows room for
things to not be perfect.

A lot of times when the
misconceptions about happiness is

that happiness must always be perfect.

Right.

It must always be good.

It must always be that
picture perfect moment.

If you would, um, for
example, I've got four kids.

We were really excited about Christmas
this year because every year we do,

we call the Hedrick family games.

It's this, uh, opportunity to do
like minute to win it like games.

Um, and we're not competitive at all.

No, they're incredibly competitive.

And we had this new game that my
wife was like, let's try this.

Now, remember three of my kids are on
the spectrum, so it's a little bit more

fun and challenging, but we played this
game where they had a present wrapped

up in a bunch of layers of wrapping
paper and had to then rip through all

the different ones wearing oven mitts.

They lost their minds.

Like I had my nine year old
screaming, throwing the present

across the room because he was mad.

My oldest one was laughing
at him, making it even worse.

And in the back of mind of my
wife's head, we're like, wow,

we've just ruined Christmas.

We have traumatized them for life.

Now also in the back of our heads
in our more, uh, human humanity,

we were like, Oh, we're doing
this definitely next year again.

But that's side of the point.

But the thing was, At least one
in my mind was, okay, things

are not perfect right now.

Therefore we're not happy.

And it took me a moment to step
back and be like, you know what?

Happiness does not have to have
everything perfect all the time.

It does have a central theme
of meaning and purpose.

It has a central theme of connectedness,
has a central theme of aligning my

beliefs and my values with that higher
purpose, and in that, even when things are

negative, even when things are bad, at the
moment I can still be happy through it.

And that's what I think has
been lost in our society.

And that's where I believe humility comes
into play because humility allows that

self reflection to realize that I do not
need to always have the ephemeral high

that we associate with happiness, that
I can be content in the moment and truly

be happy regardless of my circumstances.

John Carlo, I'd love to
hear what you have to add

Giancarlo Newsome: man, lots,
lots of awesome stuff there.

And I think on our last podcast,
I share another pastor friend.

He mentioned something similar.

Like when we understand that
security is an illusion.

Everything has to be perfect to be happy.

It echoes over the same thing.

I also was going to pay for a
really cool, you're talking about

meaning and purpose, and like,
we're talking flowers to our wife.

So my wife overheard me, this
was about four months ago.

I don't know how, but I guess I was
debating between buying flowers, or

paying for a lady to come clean the house.

She.

So just a free tip to all the
guys out there with ladies,

like, you have the choice.

Bryan Hedrick: heh heh.

Giancarlo Newsome: the house was,
she says, Hey, I really prefer that.

Like there was almost deeper, longer
term meaning and purpose, but to your

point, so just a free tip and something
else I wanted to ask, you know, for

you to maybe peel the onion some on it.

I, I, I being a guy in the military
also, you know, it is, you do see

these guys that just have incredible
meaning and purpose, but also we

know how, you know, the suicide rate.

For, I remember you shared with me
that there's not a suicide problem

with soldiers who are in the
service, active service practicing.

It becomes a problem only when they
leave and, or not only, but I think

maybe you can clarify or unpack that a
little bit and maybe tie it together.

Bryan Hedrick: Yeah, well, let
me clarify the comment first off.

So that was mainly within
special operations.

Now the regular army is seeing
issues with suicide, but I think that

the underlying causes of the same.

Um, we used to talk about like when I was
within special operations, I've served in

multiple different units, um, about seven
or eight years of my career thus far.

Um, we're in that community and they
focused on, yes, they had a suicide

problem in soft special operations.

My experience was that was not the case.

The case was we had suicide issues within,
um, veterans of special operations, those

who had, um, left or those who We're no
longer functioning in their primary role.

So in special operations, the
team is the central focus.

That's what you aspire to be.

You aspire to be on that team, whether
it be an operational detachment

alpha and the green berets, a
civil affairs team and, um, me.

So team for our psychological operations
folks, being on that team is what matters.

And when you cannot be on that
team anymore, that created this

dissonance, this identity crisis.

Where if I'm not a green beret,
if I'm not an operator, who am I?

And it goes back to that
sense of meaning and purpose.

Um, when you lose the sense of meaning and
purpose in your life, it's very easy to

see that then life becomes meaningless.

Um, I often talk suicide prevention and,
um, each of my, uh, in briefs that I

do with the soldiers and civilians that
I work with currently at the research

lab that I work at here in the army.

And I always use the illustration of, um,
is a chair an object or is it a person?

And this is if those of you listening
out there, if you think a chair is

a person, contact me, we'll do some
counseling and get that straight.

A chair is definitely an object.

The chair you see that I'm sitting
in right now, it is an object.

This is not a trick question.

But because it's an object,
I can treat it certain ways.

I can stand on it to change a
light because it can be a vehicle

for me to do what I need to do.

I don't care how the chair feels.

It's just an object that I can stand on.

If it's in my way, I can push
it because quite frankly, I

don't care how the chair feels.

I'm not thinking about is it feeling
like it's In its place, its purpose, its

meaning being there in front of the door.

No, it's a chair move out of the
way so I can do what I need to do.

Or until we've talked about it,
quite frankly, it's irrelevant.

Most of us have not listened to this
podcast as far thought about our chairs

and be like, Hey, you're a sentient being.

Do you care that I'm
sitting in here right now?

Cause it's irrelevant until we need it.

Problematically people, we
can treat others the same way.

One, we can treat people like
vehicles, obstacles are irrelevant.

Or two.

we can start to treat
ourselves that same way.

And when you think about how we treat
ourselves that way, if I've been

told I'm an object for so long, if
I've been treated like an obstacle,

if I've been treated as irrelevant,
if I've been treated as a vehicle,

it's easy, the longer I'm told
that to start to believe it's true.

Now, how does this relate to suicide?

And then how does this relate to humility?

First off for suicide, I can't kill
myself if I believe I'm a person.

I have to see myself as an object.

First and foremost, we talk about
the suicide problem across the army

is that we have, we have individuals
who are part of a incredible team

who feel that they are nothing
more than an object in their lives.

And that's completely untrue.

They are people of value and worth
does not matter who they are, what

rank they are, what job they have.

They are people of value and worth.

They are not a chair.

But the more that we see ourselves as a
chair, the more we can think that way.

This is the tie to humility.

Humility, one of the key
aspects of it is self awareness.

Seeing myself for who I am.

not less than and not greater than I.

The way I like to say it is he true
humility is seeing myself the way that

God made me with my imperfections, with
my strengths and abilities, with all of

the value that comes along with being
a person created in the image of God.

That is what humility is
in terms of self awareness.

It's seeing myself accurately.

Part of that means then I'm not a chair.

I have to see myself as a
person of value and worth.

That's not arrogance.

That's not narcissism.

Narcissism and arrogance says I
am the greatest human or I am the

only or I am the most important.

That's not what we're talking about here.

Humility states I am of value
and worth because I'm a human

being and that has a huge impact.

When we talk about things like suicide,
domestic violence, sexual assault,

all these other negative aspects that
we are, these negative behavioral

patterns that we are combating within
the military, combating within the

civilian sector, combating just as
human beings across the world because

all of them have the same root.

And that's this idea
that we have objectified

other people instead of seeing
them with the value that they have.

Um, the second aspect of humility
is this idea of not just self

awareness, but awareness of others.

It's a crucial form that Dr.

Brad Owens and others have,
uh, discussed in terms of their

research on what humility looks at.

Um, and it's so important because a lot
of times I think humility, that's just me.

Humility is also seeing the value
and worth in each one of you.

Seeing the, knowing that Brandon, you
are an incredible developing podcasts.

I am terrible.

That is a humble

Brandon Giella: You're doing great,

Bryan Hedrick: sense
of, well, it truly is.

You can do the video editing and all that.

I could probably figure it
out about a year from now.

If I really, really try hard and
even then I still probably have

the talent or skills that you do.

Um, and that's not self deprecation.

That's a recognition of the gifts
and skills that God has given you.

Same thing with you, Giancarlo, you've
got so many skills and abilities in

both leading e humility as well as
then your role within the military,

your role within your family that I
quite frankly look back, I'm like,

wow, that's that awareness of others.

That is so important because
you do not objects your people.

you have value, you have worth, you
have strengths, you have weaknesses too.

And that's where humility comes
into helping to be honestly able

to save lives, able to transform
lives in a very positive way.

Brandon Giella: I love that connection
to objectification because I have some

connections to elite athletes and they
feel very much the same way when they're

on a professional sports team or on a
very high level, like collegiate team,

they feel like they're just a, you know,
kind of like an asset, you know, a cow

kind of going through this machine.

And as soon as they're not useful
anymore, they're cut or, you know, they,

that's very transactional relationship.

And that kind of thing can
be very, very difficult.

Damaging to somebody because as soon
as they're cut or their injury, you

know, they get a career ending injury
They're just like what what am I?

What am I doing?

I have no purpose.

I have no service and so I love that
idea of kind of awareness of yourself

of others, but also if I could add
to that like an awareness of uh,

your your situation in the world or
in the universe even of just like

There is more to life than sports or
the military or my job or my role.

There's more to to that And I think like
the connection I'm making the way that

you're talking is like um is along the
lines of contentment and satisfaction

because I think that's where there is
like purpose there's meaning there's joy

There's suffering as well and you can
be joyful through suffering There's the

the moments of of emotional happiness
and things like that And so i've come to

think of happiness as sort of like this
overall sense of, of my life is worth it.

It's, I'm satisfied.

I'm content.

Not that I don't want things,
you know, I'd love to drive a

new Tesla or, you know, a fancier

Bryan Hedrick: Hmm.

Brandon Giella: or whatever.

It's not that, but it's, but it's this
idea of like, I, the whole picture that

I'm painting on my, my art as my life.

I am satisfied with it
a little more blue here.

Sure a little more yellow here.

Sure, but but overall i'm satisfied
And I think that that traces through

the centuries From the greeks and their
idea of eudaimonia, you know the idea of

like Flourishing into the hebrew and old
testament scriptures this idea of shalom

And then you have the new testament and
on of blessedness, you know, happy Are

you happy is the person who is doing such
and such and I think I think it's aquinas

that talks a lot about virtues and And
kind of bridging all the, the seven core

virtues from, from Aristotle and then
the three core virtues from faith, hope,

and love from, uh, theological lines.

And I think putting all of those
together, you do build this like life

that is satisfied and you're, you're,
you don't have this like deep need.

Because that need like you said that
that wanting is what is contributing to

a lack of happiness So I think there's
something in there about that, but I

think it does take humility to get there.

I think that's the the key

Bryan Hedrick: I think
you're absolutely right.

And I, I agree with you.

I've worked with a couple of,
uh, elite athletes as well.

Um, then, like I said, with elite
warriors, one of the challenges is always,

yeah, you're, we're nothing but a number.

I mean, SOCOM used to talk
about the human weapon system.

Um, and that's something that myself
chaplains really pushed hard against.

Because it objectified them from
the very beginning, it said,

basically, you are a weapon system.

And if you don't function right,
then you need to believe and

go off and do something else.

Brandon Giella: Interesting Wow

Bryan Hedrick: the role
identities that we have?

Because each one of us have various roles.

We have, I'm a warrior, I'm a
father, I'm a, um, priest or pastor.

I'm a, you can name all the
different roles that we have.

The problem is that we have this thing
called, um, this identity, um, issues

where we take on that identity to
where it overshadows everything else.

Um, where that becomes our
only identity and that's what

we then make into our core.

Now, as I've done my research in
this area of core identity or sense

of self, humility, you're absolutely
right, is a core component of that.

Um, being able to see myself
accurately through those roles.

Um, being able to see that who I am as
a person may be changed Or maybe nuance.

I think it's a better word nuanced
by my roles, but it doesn't change

fundamentally by those roles.

Um, when we anchor ourselves in a role,
we are setting ourselves up for failure.

I mean, I talk with soldiers all the time.

Um, I asked them, okay,
when did you join the army?

And I say, okay, 40 years from
now, you're taking off that

uniform one way or the other.

I mean myself, I'm even, I've been in
for 22 going on 23 years right now.

I know that even if I'm allowed to
serve my entire time, which I'm not

probably in with my wife is listening
to this, don't worry, we're not

sticking around another 17 years.

But let's say that were to
happen minimum, I will be out

of the army by March 1st, 2042.

That's the maximum time allowed to serve.

I'll only be 60.

Um, I'll only be 57 years
old at that point in time.

So I know that I have an expiration
date on my role as an army chaplain,

but I don't have an expiration date
on my core identity as Brian Hedrick.

Those roles give nuance.

Now I can push and I can desire
and I can, um, absolutely like you

mentioned, I can strive for it.

greater things.

I can continue to push in a
positive way and that's healthy.

That's great.

So long as it doesn't become an unhealthy
obsession rather than a healthy ambition.

Um, and I think humility
is what grounds us in that.

Um, when you look at that core sense
of self, I really see this idea of

spirituality or sense of meaning and
purpose, our sense of connectedness, our

sense of core values, And it aligns with
humility and they are interconnected

where we have the sense of ourselves.

We have this awareness of others and we
have this openness to learn that in tandem

together, it creates a strong core that
can withstand those changes in our lives.

It's when we don't have that strong
core that when the role does shift.

We now have issues like you mentioned
with the athletes that feel, okay,

well, I'm nothing more than a performer.

And when I can't perform, I'm now nothing.

Um, it's interesting if you look at
the literature after the Olympics, for

example, mental health crisis and athletes
skyrockets after the Olympic games, we

see suicides, uh, go through the roof
of Olympic athletes, even individuals

who won gold, even individuals who
meddled we see it increased because

they had worked until their pinnacle.

And now the question is, well, what am I,
if I'm not that, or what else do I have?

And it's that core identity that
grounds them with that humility

and seeing themselves accurately.

That is what is able
to hold us through it.

That's why humility is so crucial,
um, to be developed, to be worked on.

Um, because if we ignore it, when
those crisis of identity occur,

um, We don't have that muscle that
we're used to using to be able to

help us through those challenges.

Giancarlo, were you
going to say something?

Giancarlo Newsome: No, I, I
kept, I keep having a flashback.

I had a, um, I think, you know, the
military and large institutions, the, the

success in a role, like the higher you
go, the more your rigidity to fill it as

designed defines your happiness or not.

And it's almost to be humble to say,
okay, what my, my ability to listen to

others is going to go down because that's
going to put a threat to that role.

I basically had a personal situation
where, so, you know, I came out

of the innovation world and, and
that whole environment is, is like

the extreme of openness to learn.

Like it's, it's live or die if you
can't learn, but it's a threat to

institutional environments where you
have very, and I was basically told.

Leave your innovation stuff behind.

Here's your manual for
your role and just do that.

And it was really awkward for me, but
I was, but, and you know, back to you.

And I thought Brandon, you brought
up a great point is that humility.

I really, it really kind of bothered me,
but, um, even this conversation made me

go, okay, happiness is a broader view.

It's like, okay, I'm going
to respect where he's at

that very institutional role.

He's protecting that.

I'm in effect kind of threatening
that but it also there's a place

for that protection though, right?

When the army wants you to be a lethal
weapon system and that part of that is

to protect you right, so that and there's
just like I like what you said like these

nuances of Maybe that's what humility
gives us is nuances so that nothing

becomes our identity Improperly maybe
is it's kind of some summary Conclusions

I'm drawing from both of you guys.

Bryan Hedrick: if I could share a quick
story, um, probably my, the greatest,

one of the best leaders that I saw within
my time in soft that epitomize this

idea of humility and happiness together.

Um, we were at a workshop for the
human performance and wellness,

um, part of the organization.

So focused on human performance, um,
psychological, spiritual, physical, um,

we had, We've gotten together all of
our practitioners across the Special

Operations Command, the United States Army
Special Operations Command, and this Green

Beret, 06 Colonel, walks into the room.

He's been a commander of a group.

He's been commanding all levels.

He walks into this room of scientists, of,
um, human performance, uh, coordinators

and professionals, chaplains, et cetera.

And he walks in, he, we already know
that what our goal is, what our job is,

is to help them figure out this program.

And we were expecting
it to be very one sided.

Here's what I want.

Here's what I need.

Go do it.

He walks into the room.

This is an individual who'd been
in for almost 30 years now at this

point, seeing just about everything.

Um, I mean, we put on his dress
uniform, um, More medals than can count.

He walks in and he says, Listen,
I am the dumbest person in

the room on human performance.

You are the experts.

I need your help to tell me what
we're missing to make this truly work.

And it kicked off a two day exercise
of collaboration and thinking

that was unlike anything I had
experienced in the army at that point.

And now he was not dumb.

He was not, I mean, he had
worked at West Point athletics.

He had worked in so many
different other jobs.

He was not done, but he realized that
his, that the people in the room had

the expertise that he needed and that
his job was not to be the expert.

His job was to bring the experts
together to create this product that

would then empower our soldiers to
thrive and win on a battlefield.

Um, but knowing that role, knowing
his purpose, knowing his sense

of meaning, knowing and being
aware of others in the room.

He did not need to show anybody else
up because that wasn't his role.

He didn't have to be the smartest guy.

He was content in being the one who
would then bring everybody else and

let their brilliance shine forth.

Giancarlo Newsome: I gotta, I just
gotta make a, I gotta make a plug.

It's just too obvious.

He was empowering humility, right?

I

Bryan Hedrick: He was absolutely, he

Giancarlo Newsome: the
name of the podcast, right?

Bryan Hedrick: Yes, yes.

But, and that was the, but for
somebody of that, not only rank.

position, experience, et cetera, to be
able to say, I know my limitations, I

know my strengths, I know the strengths
of those around me and I'm open to learn.

That is the very definition of
leadership or humility and leadership.

That's the very definition of happiness
and contentment within his position

because it was not a two day exercise of.

seeing some commanders that are lose
their mind and just are hating life.

We had fun as a group.

We had a great time and
we could walk around.

You could see it as demeanor
that he thrived and enjoyed

not being the spotlight.

He didn't need to be at that moment.

And that's where humility and
contentment, like I mentioned

before, humility plus contentment
is why I believe equals happiness.

We have the awareness when we have
then the contentment that goes along

with it, where I don't, where I can
just be satisfied in my status quo.

Now I can be happy.

If I'm missing one of those two, if
I'm missing humility, if I'm missing

contentment, happiness is illusion.

It's something that we grasp at is
something that we strive for, but very,

very rarely find without humility and
contentment to be at the base of it.

Giancarlo Newsome: Awesome.

Brandon Giella: Amen.

And another plug, if you want
more resources like that,

Brian, thank you so much.

Uh, I would encourage folks
to go to empowering humility.

com because that is where a lot of
these kind of resources, there's an

app, there's all kinds of, you know,
podcast episodes and blogs and things

like that to help learn how to be more
of a humble, content, uh, self aware

person to be more like the leader that
Brian had mentioned, because it is.

That when you see somebody like that
when you come into contact with somebody

like that It changes your life because
you see like that's what I want.

That's somebody who has like A well
lived life, you know, they're happy.

They're content.

They're humble And they empower
other people to be the kind of

leaders that they can be And
it's it's really an amazing thing

Giancarlo Newsome: You know, Brandon,
I think we should, we should plan

on a follow up on flow state.

Cause several times you were summarizing.

Brian, I'm sure you've got some thoughts
on flow state and, you know, I've seen

there's a, I forgot the name of the book.

Ah, I wish I could remember.

Um, but he talks about it, but the
context in which he presents flow

state, it's kind of, again, back
to that narcissistic happiness.

Like I want to achieve this peak
emotional experience at a top athlete,

top elite warrior, but my true.

Connection, I wouldn't say the word
compassion, just true connection

and understanding that my strength
is the product of, of, of the

strengths of everyone around me.

And another kind of follow up thought
too that we might play into is I know

like there's this, I participated
in this, um, new type of AI called

conversational swarm intelligence.

And it's kind of a,
using technology to, to.

in effect, uh, enable more
collective empowering humility.

But, you know, those are some follow
on thoughts, Brandon, we might, uh,

and Brian, we might just expand upon.

But, uh, really awesome stuff, Brian.

Brandon Giella: Yeah, thank you so much
brian for your expertise in this area

I know you've done years and years of
studying and reading and researching

about this topic And so i'm so grateful
that you're you're able to share your

wisdom with us and with our listeners
And so we'd love to have you back on

Bryan Hedrick: No, thank you both so much.

I really enjoyed it.

Brandon Giella: All right guys,
well we'll see you next time on

the empowering humility podcast
thanks for joining see you then

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