The Empowering Humility Podcast

Dolores: Welcome to Empowering Humility,
where we're on a mission to promote human

flourishing by restoring humility as
a common denominator in society today.

Let's dive in.

Giancarlo Newsome: Good afternoon, or
morning or evening, wherever you're at.

Welcome to the Empowering
Humility Podcast.

I'm John Carla Newsom and I'll be your
host for this podcast at Empowering.

I just wanna give a little framing
for what we do at Empowering Humility.

We believe humility is the root
virtue for human flourishing.

Our mission is to embrace the
power of humility and leverage AI

and Web3 technologies to restore
humility as a core societal value.

I introduce, uh, to or today's guest who
I'm really excited about is I wanted our

listeners to know that most of our guests
are living in what I would describe or

some have described as the flow state.

And what does that mean?

Maslow described that as
self-actualization and a common

denominator is, is it's obvious
they have a passion and a purpose

that's greater than themselves.

They embody empowering humility.

They've seized upon paying forward,
kind of unquestionable good.

Built from where their greatest
pain and love intersect.

And you'll pick that up with our guests.

And I think 'cause that's
a wonderful connection.

And, uh, anyhow, I heard that
characterization, you know, where our

greatest pain and love intersects?

That's from Pastor Sunday, Elijah.

And he, he used that
to help people kind of.

Find what their transcendental
purpose in calling in this slide.

Today I'm super excited to have Rabbi
Slowmo slacking with us to discuss

improving mental health, replacing
our therapist with humility, and

he is a therapist, so he is kinda
like a therapist that's an anti

therapist, so it's gonna be really fun.

Um, I'm going to uh, quick highlights,
quick bio on on on Rabbi Slack, and

I'll let him kind of tell more like the.

The backstory, like how did
this really cool bio come about?

So he is a certified Imago
relationship therapist.

He's an advanced clinician.

He's the founder of the
Marriage Restoration Project.

He has a master of science
in counseling psychology.

He's Alliance licensed Clinical
Professional counselor, and

this is a professional license
for mental health counselors.

And that means he's certified to
provide therapy and counseling

services independently.

So, um, he's a certified Imago Workshop
presenter, and I'm sure we're gonna

be learning about the, the Imago, uh,
workshop and, and faculty associate of the

Imago International Training Institute.

Together with his wife Rivka, they founded
the Master the Marriage Restoration

Project, a global initiative to help
keep couples together and happy.

Out of concern for the global breakdown
of relationships and families, and I

think it's, it's still around 50% maybe.

And Rabbi Slack, and feel free to throw
some statistics, um, um, rabbi Slack

has made it his mission to help save
marriages in two days, just two days

by way of marriage intensive retreats.

Pretty cool.

And again, I and I, as I share with
our guests, like you cannot grandstand.

Enough, like if you're on our podcast,
'cause we believe in you, you've

already demonstrated per mission
over me so there's no grandstanding.

'cause we know you're
committed to your mission.

And, and so you promote him, how you
fulfill your mission, we encourage that.

Um, he's also created an
online marriage school.

It's self-guided program.

It's a very affordable solution, um,
to receive quality marriage help.

He also trains other therapists
and coaches in Imago therapy.

So his website, and I'll share this
couple times throughout our podcast, is

the marriage restoration project.com.

And again, that's the marriage
restoration project.com.

Welcome Rabbi Slackin to the
Empowering Humility Podcast.

And, uh, tell us a little
bit, uh, about yourself.

How, how, just tell us
about you, your backstory.

Shlomo Slatkin: Thank you Gen Carlo.

It's a pleasure to be here.

I love, I love the name of your podcast.

I love that topic of your podcast
because I think that's, you know,

that's what, what life is all about.

It's about, uh, kind of being, being
really humble and being able to take

away the, the struggle that we have
between, you know, the ego and the,

the needs of the body and, and the.

Just the body, but the self,
uh, as opposed to, I would call

like the needs of the soul.

And to be, to be connecting
to our true self.

To be connecting not from a place of, of
the fear that represents with everything

the ego is driven by, but really coming
from a place of connection, place of

love, from a place of service to others.

Um, so I really love, love the,
the top, the, your podcast,

uh, you know, theme and title.

Giancarlo Newsome: thank

Shlomo Slatkin: it's interesting because,
you know, I think that humility is, it's

so essential to any, any relationships,
and especially in a marriage because I'll

just tell a little bit about my story.

So I would say it's about almost
22 years ago, my wife and I, we

were, we just had our first child.

We were in about two years into
our marriage, and we got to a

point where at least I was like.

This is, we gotta do something
about this 'cause this is not

going in a good direction.

Know my wife grew up in a, her
parents got divorced when she was 11.

It was very much a part of her identity.

She was one of the first people in her
community whose parents got divorced.

After that, it was like a, you
know, a chain reaction and other

people started getting divorced.

So there were trendsetters in
that way, but it was very painful.

The divorce was painful.

Um, the, the childhood before was painful.

Post-divorce perhaps
was even more painful.

And it definitely became a part
of who she was and her identity.

And as I met her,

Giancarlo Newsome: So

Shlomo Slatkin: you know, her hope
for a better relationship for a home

that would be different than hers.

And it became challenging when we
started having fights because we

thought we were gonna be better.

We thought we were gonna know
how to communicate and we were

so much in love that we just
thought things would be perfect.

And.

Kind of in for a rude awakening when
we both started triggering each other.

We both saw behaviors or you know,
that were not so desirable and

we're just kind of wondering, like,
what do we get ourselves into?

Like, is this really gonna work?

And now with a child, it's like we
have the stressors of not sleeping

so much at night and got to the point
where we gotta do something about it.

So, so thank God we had a, I had a
colleague of mine who referred me to an

Imago therapist and my wife Frisco had
a hairdresser also told her about Imago.

So we thought.

There must be something about this.

If we both heard this message and we
went to this Imago therapist and after

the first session we felt reconnected.

We felt back in love.

We felt like we could start to see
a purpose for all of the struggle

that we've been through now.

It took us more time than that.

It wasn't like fixed in one session.

We, we spent time working on it
and I was getting my degree in

counseling psychology at the time.

I was wanted to be a pulpit
rabbi, but I wanted to have this.

Thought I should get a
counseling degree on the side.

And the therapist recommended
that I do this training to

become an Imago therapist.

So I actually pursued this training
and I, that became my, my, uh, you

know, my profession, my life's work.

And together with Rifka, we began to
transform from like a little, that was

our local counseling practice to what we
call the marriage Restoration Project.

Where, and it was really in
her, her merit that she, she

was talking to a girl who was.

Her parents were going through the
divorce around the same age as her

when she was, her parents got divorced
and she was talking about all the

awkwardness of having to travel with
her father to like, uh, singles events.

And it was just, uh, weekends
and it was just like,

Giancarlo Newsome: like,

Shlomo Slatkin: I don't want
any other kids to have to go

through what I had to go through.

We need to do something
somehow to, to change this.

And so that launched the
marriage restoration project.

And so our mission's really to help help
couples to help couples to be able to

see that even if your therapist tells
you to get divorced, even if you're

getting bad advice from other people, I.

That

Giancarlo Newsome: that

Shlomo Slatkin: most situations
can be, can be restored if

the willingness is there.

And unfortunately, there's a lot of
perhaps well-meaning, people giving,

giving advice that's not so helpful
and not really empowering each other.

Giancarlo Newsome: other,

Shlomo Slatkin: And I can tell
more about that 'cause you, you

did say that I'm anti therapist.

I wanna make sure that I
get myself in trouble here.

I'm gonna share a little
bit more about that.

But, uh, one thing that I noticed in this
work that I experienced personally was,

you know, I talking about humility is.

The process that we learned taught
us how to become humble because they

taught us how to be able to put our
egos aside, to cross the bridge into

the world of the other, and really make
space for someone other than ourselves.

I think that relationships, you know,
they started off in that romantic stage

and it's about, you know, it feels
really good, but that romantic love is

really, it's not so humble, actually.

It's more about myself and.

What I can get out of this.

And you know I love you because I like
how I feel with you, not because I

actually love you as a person, per se.

It's like I feel really good around you.

I love myself when I'm with you.

And so it's like, you know,
it's like I like french fries

and I don't like french fries.

I love myself because I like, I love,
I love the way that french fries feel.

It doesn't mean I love french fries, so
I love my partner, I love my spouse, but

Giancarlo Newsome: But

Shlomo Slatkin: it's not really until
you get to the challenges where you

actually have to become humble and to.

To be committed to a relationship and
to have respect for an other, and to be

able to know that the relationship is
not about me feeling good all the time.

It's about me being in a relationship
with someone other than myself, someone

that I can give to and I can show
love for, not about what I'm feeling.

And I think that's why we have
so many challenges in our society

because people don't realize that.

They think relationships are
just supposed to feel good.

And it's kind of about
what can I get out of it?

And the, the truth is, it's really
about making space for somebody else

and being devoted to somebody else.

It doesn't mean you can't
feel love and be happy.

That's of course, but
it's more than just that.

I'll pause there.

I know

Giancarlo Newsome: Love.

No, no, no, no.

I, it's, it's awesome.

I love it.

I was gonna like, pull some threads that,
you know, um, I heard this definition.

Um.

Um, pride.

The opposite of humility.

It's the absence of relationship
and that, that, that definition

kind of echoed where you were
saying, you know, we're in humility.

You, we make space for
someone other than ourselves.

And I, and I totally was connecting.

Like when you meet, when you first
start dating, you know, this other

person makes you feel just so wonderful.

But then you realize that maybe
that's not the whole story.

And, and you think about what
social media algorithms do.

They, they feed that to
another level, right?

It's all about you.

It's in that, that, that, that
just self-love, self-love.

And then, then we're, we're consumed
with that, but then miserable.

So, um, I, I loved everything that
you were sharing and, and, you

know, for context for the listeners,
um, about 10 years ago, um.

I, I honestly found, uh,
rabbi Slack in too late.

I had a very difficult family situation
and, um, there was some significant

trauma in in that, but it was, um, and
maybe we'll just go straight into this

kind of, this, you know, kind of our,
our question of, of, um, it became

really obvious to me as like a therapist.

I was supporting was like
there was no end in sight.

That was, it all became directed
toward one party, you know?

And, um, and then, then the
issues on that one party.

That, and in this, the one, the one
party, you know, was very volunteered.

A lot of, you know, their issues.

They were willing to work on, they, they
were committed to the relationship, but.

I observing that situation, that
kind of became like the fodder for

the therapist and the therapist's
like, oh, well since he's, you know,

agrees to this type of challenge,
let's, let's go ahead and probably

your, your children need therapy too.

And next thing you know on that,
COR and mental health is now

our biggest corporate expense.

I don't, I don't know when it
passed, like, um, some of the other

health, but I read that recently.

You can maybe, uh, rabbi Slack kind, can
you address like the obvious mal incentive

there is to actually not kinda like people
talk about sick care versus healthcare.

There's really a stronger financial
incentive and, and since we're all

fallible humans, there really is.

There's not a financial
incentive outside just strong

integrity to truly heal anyone.

And that's why, um, I don't know.

What, what's your thoughts
about, about that mal incentive?

In, in, in, I, I know I mentioned earlier
Freya India, you know, she's kind of

coined, I don't know if she coined it,
but I was listening to her the other day.

Um, she's a strong kind of, you
know, women empowerment and she's

talking about therapy culture
and how damaging it's been.

Um, maybe if you could expand on
that and how, how you're different

and what do you recommend for other
therapists to, to not like, be

tempted into that, that mal incentive.

What are your thoughts?

Shlomo Slatkin: Sure.

You know, it could be that I'm
like a little bit naive because I.

Giancarlo Newsome: because I,

Shlomo Slatkin: You know, I think that
people go into this profession 'cause

they want to help people and not because
they wanna, you know, strike it rich.

Um, believe me, I would've
done something else.

It's not,

Giancarlo Newsome: It's not,

Shlomo Slatkin: it's not
an easy field to be in.

Um, but I think people go into it.

I could speak for myself because
we want make a difference in

the world and help people.

Um, so I mean, I guess I could see that,

Giancarlo Newsome: that,

Shlomo Slatkin: I could see that
the people would want to keep their

clients and maybe have even more
clients and include other family

members so they can increase their
caseload and make more money.

Um, you know, I think that
that could be part of it.

Um, I guess I wanna look at the, um,
look on the bright side that people

have, in theory, they have good
intentions, but it's not even just

about making money, it's about people.

Well, it's something
that's about their own ego.

So it's, I want to feel like I'm
helping you, so I want to be able

to be the one to tell you what you
should do and help wreck your life.

Um, but.

It's more about what therapy
should be about, in my opinion, is

empowering people to be able to make
the decisions for themselves and

empower them to get healthy, not
not having them kind of be stuck in

therapy for the rest of their lives.

And I.

You know, some people want, you know,
if somebody wants to come and they find

it helpful, I've had clients say like,
you know, we just like having this time

once a week to be able to just talk,
talk to each other, and like it's, you

know, it's like going to a trainer.

You know, you're not gonna exercise if
you don't have a trainer, so you just

have a trainer for the rest of your life.

But, uh, you know, that's, that's
more of an exception to a rule.

The goal is really just to help
empower the couple to get through

what they're getting through to
give 'em the skills they need to.

Not be dependent on the therapist.

So, you know, I think it's
important that people who go into

therapy, even if they have Yeah,

Giancarlo Newsome: maybe, maybe
a, a suggestion thought is,

you know, like I have a friend,
he's providing some coaching.

Maybe that's where
maybe the proper way to.

And, and again, I don't, I, I'm
all about a, a good therapist

being compensated well, right.

And if there's legitimate issues
with other, with the children and,

and the trauma a hundred percent.

Like I, I, I, I, you know, for
all listeners, like there's a,

and this way an open discussion.

No.

Uh, but like, is there a
point where we say, Hey, look.

Um, we have a, a point of arrival, right?

And, and then maybe we can have
an offshoot of coaching, right?

If, if you connect very well with
your therapist and the couple is

like, Hey, this is really valuable,
let's keep refreshing, then maybe is

that maybe a good characterization
where we go from therapy to coaching?

Shlomo Slatkin: I mean, it could be,
it just depends on if the therapist,

you know, I don't know how you're
gonna, how you do it in terms of, uh,

you know, this insurance and people
have insurance can be a consideration

and if someone's not licensed, there's
a lot of different variables there.

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Shlomo Slatkin: I think more of the.

More of the concern is
a a few, a few concerns.

I think first of all, we have to
realize that I saw a statistic once.

84%, 84% of people who are
doing marriage counseling have

Giancarlo Newsome: have

Shlomo Slatkin: one marriage
marriage counseling course

in their master's program.

As their education for working with
couples, which means that, you know,

would you go to a doctor for neurosurgery?

Would you go to somebody who went to
med school and I don't know, let's

say they're an allergist, you're gonna
get brain surgery from an allergist.

They did have a course in surgery, you
know, in in doc, in medical school.

Of course not.

But we're willing to trust our lives and
lives of our family with somebody who has.

Basically no, no training.

Look, look, I learned about alcohol.

I took a course in alcohol and addictions.

I'm not an addictions therapist.

I don't claim to be, I know
I know enough about it and a

little bit about it, obviously.

Um, but I would never say, yeah,
I'm gonna specialize in see people

who, uh, help them in recovery
because that's not what I do.

And I think that there's a, there's
a big problem with competency in the

therapy world and beyond that most
people who are therapists, they've.

I mean, unless they have, even if they
have a doctorate, but they've done a,

like, it's about two years in school and
then maybe like a, you know, a year or so

of supervision, a certain number of hours.

You know, it's not like all because
they have the degree, I'm not, they're

a lot of well-meaning therapists, but
all because somebody has a degree, it

doesn't mean that they're qualified or it
doesn't mean that they're, they're good.

And it doesn't mean that I should accept
their opinion and change and do do what

they say without using my own brain.

The problem is we think someone's a
professional, we respect them and we

think that we should listen to them.

And the problem is when they start
giving advice and telling you what to

do about things that are not, let's
say, um, a relationship, let's say, A

lot of times people go to a therapist
and they'll tell them to get divorced

and they never even met the spouse.

I.

Now, how is that ethical?

How is that even fair to
comment on someone when you only

heard one side of the story?

But you know, it happens all the time.

There's some therapists also.

We are human beings too.

So unless we do our own work and
are kind of in touch with ourselves,

we're gonna bring our own biases to
the table and we're going to, if we

have an axe to grind, you know, some
therapists have an axe to grind with men.

Some therapists have an
axe to grind with women.

Some people were divorced and they
have, uh, there's so many different.

There's baggage that
we bring to the table.

Unless we've worked out ourselves, we're
gonna bring that to the therapy room.

So like, I might hear something about
some spouse and I think, yeah, well

that's really, they're really horrible
and that reminds me of my own situation.

Well, that's not really appropriate to,
we have to be in charge of our, you know,

aware of our countertransference because
that's gonna impact the other person.

So what.

Giancarlo Newsome: what,

Shlomo Slatkin: So what I do in
terms of like imago therapy is we

are really empowering the couple.

We're having the couple face each other.

We're having them do the work.

We're not telling, we're not telling them,
uh, what that they need to get divorced.

We're not telling one person
that they're the problem.

We're here to create the, the most
important goal is to create a safe

environment for the couple to do the work
themselves, because we have the assumption

that if the couple chose each other,
the couple is in the right relationship.

And, you know, unless someone's
being severely abused and in danger,

most situations, if both people are
willing to work on it, can be, can be

healed if they're willing to do it.

And we're here to, with that assumption
that the relationship can work and

that if they're coming to us for help,
we're here to help them stay together.

Because the ramifications of divorce
beyond the impact it has on the

couple, it has impact on the children.

It has impact for generations.

It has, it's, it's, it's.

It's perpetuating, you know, they're
talking about feeding into this, uh,

culture of mental, mental health.

It's perpetuating that.

And one, one other point I wanna make
that's important, and I think this goes

along with what you were saying, John
Cler, is that on, on the one hand, it's

really great that people are willing
to work on themselves, you know, and be

more self-aware and going to therapy,
but it becomes a crutch and it becomes a.

It's the opposite of, you said the
opposite of humility in the sense

that it's all about me, it's all
about my therapist, and you know,

I have to ask my therapist first,
and it's about my self growth.

I just don't think this
relationship is good for me.

And you know what?

It's really great going on in
a week long meditation retreat

where you don't talk to anybody.

That's fun because you don't
have to deal with anyone.

But being in a re or going to your
weekly therapist, you have someone

you can vent to talk to, and it's
all about you and your problems.

To have to deal with someone else in
a committed relationship that pushes

your buttons, where you're gonna have
to make sacrifices where you're gonna

have to grow and work on yourself.

That is the.

I would say it's, it's the best way
to achieve self-growth, but I find

that self-growth becomes so selfish
and it becomes judgmental to the point

where it's like, well, I just think
you're beneath me because you know, you

don't, you, I've gone to therapy for
10 years and you haven't, and I just

don't think we can meet each other.

So you have on the same wavelength.

So you have couples that are
just growing apart because, uh,

they're not really growing together

Giancarlo Newsome: together.

And, and again, like
I mentioned, you know,

Shlomo Slatkin: industry.

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, yeah.

What were you gonna

Giancarlo Newsome: and, and No, I was
just gonna say, and then, you know,

if we're on social media, which is
monitoring for better, for worse.

What our therapist has told us.

And you know, like, so if, if, if, if
we were spending time on something that

triggers me and I'm, and I'm, you know,
you know, Amazon's listening and like

we're getting, we're getting reinforced at
a way that I think, um, is, is not good.

And, and I was also gonna
compliment something else you

brought up, you know, about the,

um, I, I loved how you volunteered.

An actual metric for success of, you
know, even like a, um, a, uh, there's

a, you know, there's doctors who
perform a certain type of surgery.

They, there's a statistic as
to their success, and they talk

about that with mental health.

Like where, where's the dashboard?

Where's like the, you know, there's
reviews, I guess, kind of, but I,

I loved hearing how, if I remember
right, like an 85% success rate.

Is that, did I read that right?

That like, for the couples who commit.

That's

Shlomo Slatkin: the marketing
person to put it up there.

You know, I don't really like the, it
would be nice to be able to say that,

but I always tell people I cannot, I
cannot guarantee how it's gonna turn out

because you're gonna have to do the work.

Meaning I'll teach you
everything that I know.

But if a, if one person's not
committed or they have one foot out

the door, um, the best therapist is not
necessarily gonna be able to help them.

So,

Giancarlo Newsome: Got it.

Got

Shlomo Slatkin: and I know like we used
to have on the website the, you know,

for marketing purposes, but, you know,
I don't really like, uh, personally,

you know, personally, I don't really
like, uh, I, I think that, I think

that if a couple's committed, there's
no reason why you can't be successful.

But they, it's ultimately
gonna depend on them.

It's not like a formula, like you can just
plug in, you know, do push this button and

then like it will come out the right way.

Because we're dealing with the world
of, you know, per human emotions.

And uh,

Giancarlo Newsome: Well, and
you're right, like there's so many.

Shlomo Slatkin: able to guarantee that.

Giancarlo Newsome: Well, as I've
shared in another environment, like

if we even just set a goal, right?

Say, Hey, look, you know, if, if we could
get an 85%, um, success rate of couple,

that'd be an amazing thing because to your
point, like, and also I did love how you.

You did quantify like
the real cost of divorce.

That also that's not talked
about in therapy too.

When my, in the situation I was
telling you about it was not raised

and, and, and that's, and there's
like first order costs, second and

third, like, you know, one in three
divorces end up with estranged, um,

uh, kids with, with one of the parents.

That's horrible because then
it extends to the grandparents.

Like one recent situation that
was just heartbreaking is.

These grandparents who love
their grandkids to death, um,

at both their funerals, only one
grandchild acknowledged them.

I mean, and if you, if you, again,
being someone who was close to that

situation, heartbreaking, heartbreaking.

And, and, you know, um, I did have an
opportunity to try to reach out to some of

the, there was some clergy involved and,
and the therapist say, Hey, can you like.

That, that was 10 years ago.

Do you think maybe you could
relook at that or maybe reconsider

and try to mend some bridges?

No response.

So I think it's, I I love
your positive, like, um,

your, your, your optimism.

I, I just, um.

You know, the, the mental health
pandemic, I'll, I'll ask you, here's

a fun little angle to take, you
know, 'cause I know you're, you're

a rabbi, you're a person of faith.

You look at the radical decline of faith.

And, and you know, I've kind of
been wondering, you know, has this

therapy culture replaced the church?

And my, like you mentioned, you know,
I'm living part-time in, in Italy

and I look at the amount of time like
a priest or rabbis go through like

in their studies and like it's not
just one course and they're always.

You know, faced with a, with a,
they're almost forced into perpetual

humility because there's a higher
power that they're answering to.

So what are your thoughts about,
um, you know, faith in therapy,

um, in, in, in empowering
humility at a, at a serious level?

What maybe expand upon that, how that.

Plays into your, your practice and,
and feel free to go ahead and also

kind of pile into what is Imago therapy
like, because I know there's Imago

Day, which has a kind of a, like, uh,
there's a, we, we, we, not only do we

humble ourselves before something much
bigger than ourselves, a potential

creator, but we also are making an
assumption that what he created is,

is implicitly like divine, right?

So I'll let you take it from there.

Sure.

Shlomo Slatkin: Sure.

You know, it's, I, I work with couples
from all different backgrounds,

so a lot of people come to me,
actually, they're looking for like a

non-religious marriage, uh, marriage

Giancarlo Newsome: Cool, cool.

Great.

Shlomo Slatkin: Um, then, then

Giancarlo Newsome: by the way, by the way,
if I can interrupt, empowering humility.

We, we also want to appeal to people
with, without faith as much as with faith.

So a hundred percent.

I, I think that's an important,
um, objective to really love

people where they're at.

Right.

So, yeah, go ahead.

Shlomo Slatkin: But, but I do think
that faith, I mean, it definitely is

helpful because if, if you believe, if
you just, if you don't believe, if you

don't believe, then everything is just
random and there's no reason for it.

And so it doesn't feel good to
me then find somebody better.

But coming from a faith background, um.

I do believe it helps you commit more
because you believe there's a reason.

Um, and that's what really drove
me, drove me to this therapy.

Imago Imago means image in, in Latin,
and it's that the theory, it's not a

religious therapy, but it, it feels
like it's very much in tune with some

of, you know, my personal beliefs
is, is a, a Jewish person that, that.

There's, it's not a coincidence
why we pick our spouse.

There's a reason why we're
drawn towards that person.

And that person is really, we have an
unconscious image of who we want to

marry, and that unconscious image is
really a composite of the positive,

negative characteristics of our parents.

So we're looking to marry someone very
familiar and the challenges that we have,

not consciously, of course, the challenges
that we have in the relationship,

um, serve to help us grow and heal.

So we said that marriage is really
for the purpose of growth and healing.

So it really looks at
things very different.

Instead of learning, looking at
conflict as a liability, it looks at

it as an opportunity for connection.

So going into that, I can say, wow,
this is like divinely orchestrated.

Like it's not a coincidence
that I married my wife.

It's not a coincidence that
we're having our unique issues.

If we begin to examine what we're
dealing with, we start to see that.

You know, we're actually in the right
relationship and, you know, you know,

God put us in this relationship for the
purpose of rectifying it and healing.

So for me, it made, it
made a lot of sense.

Um, it just fit like a puzzle.

So

Giancarlo Newsome: Uh, I have a,

Shlomo Slatkin: to me in terms
of like from a faith background.

Giancarlo Newsome: uh, I had
you, you, you reminded me, uh,

my, uh, a very dear cousin.

I was sharing some challenge and
she looked at me and she goes,

Jean Carlo, you're like the best
and worst of both your parents.

And I'm like, I guess that's a compliment.

And it was really, so it kinda echoed
what you were saying and, and I, and

just to repeat it, I love what you said.

Marriage, the purpose of marriage is,
uh, for our growth and healing, and

that makes so much beautiful sense.

Um, that's, I, I, I had some flashbacks
to my wife, who I completely don't

understand at times, but I completely
know that what I don't understand and

those things that drive me sometimes
crazy is exactly what I need.

Shlomo Slatkin: Hmm.

And if you could look at it from that
positive perspective, I mean that's

why the faith can help because you,
you look at it, this is an opportunity.

This is instead of just like it's all
about 'cause everything's random and

there's no re reason for anything and you
know, I'm just suffering for no reason.

You can be able to do that.

You can have hope.

If you have, you can have
hope for the relationship.

Giancarlo Newsome: maybe, maybe to,
and, and now I'll take it negative.

Um, where, how do you know when, and
I, I'm a big believer in hope, but how

do you know when like it's truly, the
other person is just like, it's, and I.

Like, there it is, it's hopeless.

Right?

Um, like the, how do you, um, and I,
yeah, very curious to hear how you, how

do you know how does a And again, I know
every situation's unique and that's the

other thing too that just shocks me with,
with, and I admire a therapist, but I also

wouldn't want the role because in effect,
a couple, which has the influence of many

generations that make up that person.

I mean all the data points from,
I'm a very much a kind of analytics

guy that's beyond o only, maybe
the divine could know what that is.

Right?

And we're asking the therapist, and that's
where maybe I'm, I'm kind of thinking

out loud with you, is maybe that's why
it makes so much sense to say, Hey,

therapist, the, the couple has to work
out all that subconscious together, right?

Like, and rather than.

Rather than putting this therapist on
some type of pedestal to try to say,

Hey, please figure out the dysfunction
for good and the good and the bad of

these two human beings who are so unique.

You know?

Um, I dunno.

How, how do you, where, where is
there a, a proper point to lose?

To have maybe some doubt
in our hope, right?

Because I think there, there's, and I'm
not, maybe I'll, I'll articulate better.

When does someone need to take action
in what is truly a abuse, right?

I'm not saying to give up on anyone.

I, I think hurt people.

Hurt people.

But there is a point in time how would
you guide people to say, look, you

can work on your relationship, but
this type of abuse is pretty, is like.

It, it's like advanced level, like
it, you, you need to create physical

separation or other type of legal or
other type of like separation because

it's your hope, um, or your humility.

Actually, people, one of the
challenges with humility and, and you

may challenge this rule, is I feel
it's okay to be humble as long as

the other person is equally humble.

If, if you're, if you're humble
with someone who's not willing to

be equally humble, I, I would argue
you're inviting yourself for abuse.

What's your thoughts?

Shlomo Slatkin: I mean, that makes sense.

Um, because if, if you're humble, then
you're able to tolerate more and you maybe

you're, you, there's a fear that maybe you
let yourself be, let the other person walk

all over you because of your humility.

Um, I think that

Giancarlo Newsome: that.

Shlomo Slatkin: you don't have
to be on the same level of, of

humility as the other person.

Uh, I don't know if that's, it's hard
to really expect the other person

to be exactly on, on your own level.

Giancarlo Newsome: own level.

Shlomo Slatkin: I think there's a
question that's like, you have to have,

you can have humility, but you can also
have boundaries, and there's certain

boundaries that can't be crossed.

So like obviously if someone's
in, in physical danger, that's

not, you know, the bedrock of any
successful relationship is safety.

That's emotional safety,
physical safety, of course.

If you can't, if you do not feel safe
around this person, if this person

is physically a, you know, abusing

Giancarlo Newsome: Sure.

Sure.

Shlomo Slatkin: then you need
to create some type of distance.

Do you have to terminate the relationship?

Um, it depends on whether the person's
able to get help and able to work on it.

And there are different types of abuse.

There's some abuse, which is, you know, it
says it's more like, like impulse control.

And those things can often be worked on.

There's some abuse which is,
uh, much more severe and.

It really is gonna be, I don't wanna
say, almost impossible to change.

So it's gonna depend on the each
situation, but of course, the first

step needs to be if someone's in
physical danger, they need to, know,

create some distance, get outta the
house, and, and, and then from there

kind of reevaluate and get help and
see, um, you know, verbal abuse is an

emotional and psychological abuse that's
also, you know, it's also horrible and

equally or, and equally as damaging.

The question is though.

If that's gonna be a little bit,
if that's easier to, to fix or not.

And if, if both people are willing to
do the work and willing to take a look

at, especially the person who's the,
you know, quote unquote the abuser.

And I know like, sometimes both people
kind of provoke the situation, uh,

but one person winds up being the.

You know, hitting, even though
both people were being abusive.

So there's a lot of different
variables and none of them are okay.

Everyone needs to take ownership
for how they treat the other

person, how they can be safe.

But, you know, in those
situations it's definitely harder.

And, but in, I'd say in the more normal
run of the mill situation where people

just, you know, they don't know how
to communicate, sometimes they're not

nice to each other, they're feeling
very frustrated in their relationship.

I mean, these situations.

Can be.

I believe that there's always hope
there if there's a willingness, and

that's really what it comes down to.

It comes down to commitment.

Unless a person has a severe mental
illness where they're, or like

psychotic or, or psych or the psychopath
or something like that, you know,

those are like outliers here, but
normal run of the mill people that

are going to marriage counseling.

I believe that most of the situations
can be repaired if both people want

to put in the work to, to repair it.

Giancarlo Newsome: Do you think, you
know, the, you know, physical sexual

abuse, those are, are tangible,
um, clear boundaries, right?

That are well defined.

The emotional abuse, um, the, um.

How maybe for our listeners are, do you
have any just high level kind of rules

of thumb to say, Hey, look, you know, to.

One, one of the things I I, I learned
in some therapy, and I'm very grateful

for it, is that, you know, I was
raising an Italian family where a

lot of raising of the voices in that
environment, it was never personal.

But with my spouse who was raising in
a very introvert environment, a lot of

things were hidden and not talked about.

Um, then I could see how that could,
that in, in, in that couple, that

could be, uh, uh, feel abusive, right.

That, that type of tone,
that type of language.

So, and, and, you know, I think,
you know, and my pay forward is, you

know, if you have to raise your voice
to win an argument, then you, you've

already lost argument in my PO point.

So that's something I, I know I
learned through that process, and

that was a, a constructive part.

But, but at the same time, on the
flip side of that, it also makes it

really easy and, and, you know, um.

Where, you know, we talk about these
safe spaces where, um, uh, you know,

I had, I had a young lady tell me
that I, um, the, one of my favorite

questions for young people is, what's
your plan to make the world better?

What, what are you thinking about?

And she said, you know, when,
when, when you meet my friends,

um, please don't ask that question.

That's abusive.

I'm like, that's not abusive.

That's a, a, like, so, you know, and we,
we've so, um, mislabeled the word abuse

and, and, and, and this is where, you
know, I think it for the wrong type of

therapist, I mean, there's no shortage.

You can twist anything to be
any, any comment like, um.

Hey, you're quite beautiful.

Oh, that's abusive because
you don't, that's, you know,

you don't bring it up enough.

Like, like, I mean, there was, I,
I've seen some of these situations

where it's just a no-win Where
the accuser applies that emotional

abuse label and it's a free for all.

Shlomo Slatkin: Yeah, I, I don't
think we're very careful about our

words and, you know, I'm not really
big on pathologizing and labeling

people because I think that's a
dangerous, that's very dangerous.

Um, because as you said, you
could label anything abuse.

So I think that we, we cheapen what people
who have actually experienced abuse by.

Throwing that world out word out.

So nonchalantly, um, you know, there are,
yeah, I mean, forget about the labels.

I don't like when you say
that it's uncomfortable.

When it's uncomfortable.

For me, when you ask that
question instead of like labeling

that as you know, it's abusive

Giancarlo Newsome: Right, right,

Shlomo Slatkin: and, and because once you
say someone's abusive, then it's like, oh,

well you have to get divorced because you
can't be married to someone who's abusive.

Well, there are plenty
of people that like.

Yell and scream at people
call each other names.

Uh, now are they an abuser?

I, you know,

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

Yeah.

Shlomo Slatkin: where do you draw?

Where do you draw the line?

I mean, I'm not making light of it.

It's not okay to yell at people.

It's not okay to call people names,
but as you said, like certain

cultures, they raise their voice.

It's a normal thing.

It's not taken personally and, you
know, in, in another culture that might

be a horrifying thing, but in, in, in
one culture, it's completely normal.

So.

You know, we have to be aware of that
and instead of focusing on labeling

it or pathologizing it, talking
about what it feels like for you.

Giancarlo Newsome: you?

Shlomo Slatkin: But I'm not really
comfortable when, when you, you know,

when you are really loud and, and
animated, it just makes me scared.

It makes me feel like you're
angry with me, as opposed to like,

I feel like you're abusing me.

Or, you know, it's like you can
say that you can address the issue.

I'm not saying that to address, you
can address the issue and express

your, your upset and discomfort
without making it an issue, a big deal.

Um, and you know, if you understand
that, then oh, I can appreciate that it,

Giancarlo Newsome: that.

Shlomo Slatkin: from where you're
coming from, this doesn't feel good and

I'm gonna be more sensitive to that.

As opposed to if you're being caused
an abuser 'cause you like to talk loud,

then you know you'll get defensive
and then maybe you'll get louder.

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I, I really, um, love, love those.

Um.

Uh, again, I just, I, I'm enjoying kind
of a, we're, I think we're all listeners

getting a little bit of free therapy here.

Thank you so much.

I, you know, the, um, uh, a quick question
to kind of bring us home and then, uh,

what's your thoughts about technology and
mental health and how it can help or hurt?

Um, what, what do you, do you
have like any top of mind?

Suggestions to couples, you know, did
this technology ever, and, and kind of

the, like we mentioned earlier, the,
the, the, the digital barrage we live in.

Um, any thoughts there?

Shlomo Slatkin: Yeah, I mean, I
guess a multifaceted question.

There's certain, the, you know, there's
see mental health in terms of how, how

technology impacts our mental health and
impacts our relationships in terms of, um.

You know, the jealousy, uh, you
know, going on looking at these

perfect, you know, it's like, oh,
they're going on vacation together.

Why don't you take me on vacation?

Or look how happy they look.

You know, like comparing yourself to other
people and everyone posting their private,

private life on, uh, on social media.

Um, and you don't really know what's
going on behind, behind closed doors.

We one time had a photo shoot we were
doing, we had our little kids with us,

and we, we did a blog post about this.

You know, we look like all like,
looks like, everything's like perfect.

Then, then, then we show a picture
of like our 2-year-old, like

running, running away, and like the
stress that we were dealing with.

Like, you don't know
what's really going on.

People can look like they're,
you know, all perfect, but

they're having challenges.

So, you know, that's,
that's really dangerous.

I think that,

Giancarlo Newsome: that

Shlomo Slatkin: you know, on the
one hand it's great that people

have support and people to talk to.

On the other hand.

You know, you're talking to
strangers about your relationship

and on these, in these, you know,
groups on, on social media, uh,

they could be giving you advice.

Uh, it's not always so, so healthy.

People looking up on Google,
um, diagnosing their spouse.

Um, so with a lot more resources,
which is good for people to get help,

but it's also, you can think that
you know everything by just look

looking on Google or ai and then.

Making assumptions and I think that,
you know, when you're dealing with

real people, it's a lot more subtle.

And especially with the relationships,
I don't think you can really replace

doing the work with your spouse
being guided by someone else.

You know, I know that people use chat
GPT for therapy, um, for individuals.

Sometimes that could be helpful, maybe,
but at least in my perspective how we

work with couples, it's more about the
process and just giving people advice.

It really needs to be
facilitated by somebody.

So there, I think
there's some limitations.

Uh, I think there are
some other challenges.

The distraction of social media, or
not just social media, just technology,

just we're always on our gadgets.

Um, we've lost a lot of ability to be
present and have peace of mind, which

is so important in relationships.

We

Giancarlo Newsome: Y you know, there ha
have, have you heard of Jonathan Haight?

Have you heard of Jonathan
Height in his book?

The Anxious Generation?

Shlomo Slatkin: What's it called?

The age generation.

Giancarlo Newsome: the Anxious Generation.

Shlomo Slatkin: Anxious generation.

Yeah, I've heard of that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

I'm wondering like maybe, uh, you know,
you'd be a great partner to do like the

anxious marriage and, you know, I was
thinking, you know, just as they, they

may, you know, they're talking about phone
free schools, maybe there should be like

phone free, you know, uh, couples time.

And, uh, the, and you also brought up,
you know, I, I remember one of my own

experience with chat GPT as a team.

You know, we were working on an
effort and we, we fed it and, um,

some, some objective and it gave us
a really cool kind of recommendation.

We all jumped on board, but I think
one of the challenges, you know, paying

forward my own lessons learned from
using AI and, and how dangerous it could

be with like a therapy counseling is.

It shot us much faster, down
a wrong path that we didn't

recognize until way down the road.

So like for example, if you fly an
aircraft and you're heading's off and

you're flying a hundred knots and you're
heading's off at five degrees, it's a

much different impact and consequence to
correct then if you're going 500 knots.

Right?

So, um, I think to reinforce your point.

And I think for any, any of us who've
used, you know, some of the AI tools

is we all recognize it is one the, even
the best inputted prompt is, has gaps.

And then I think all the nuances
of humanity and like a therapist

and, and all those experiences.

I, I, yeah, I, I'm kind of with you that
I think it's a pretty dangerous space.

Um.

Not, not used carefully, but um, you

Shlomo Slatkin: use your brain, you
know, you have to use your brain.

It's like you can get this information.

What if I ask ai?

You know, here's my situation.

Should I get divorce?

Yeah, I think you should.

You know, I mean, I don't
know what it would answer, but

Giancarlo Newsome: but

Shlomo Slatkin: you, you can take
the information and sometimes

take it with a grain of salt.

Take what's helpful or not.

But you need to be discerning, and
I think that that's the problem

with, that's the problem with ai.

It's the problem with.

Even therapy.

You need to be discerning this.

The therapist is not God.

You know, they don't know everything.

They don't, they're not gonna know.

They don't know you better than you know
yourself, and you have to be discerning.

Okay, I can see where they're coming from.

But you know, I think that for
me, this does not feel right and

I need to trust that my gut, and I
think that we're not really being

taught to think for ourselves.

Um, it's a lot easier just
to rely on some artificial

intelligence or some other person.

Giancarlo Newsome: something that
isn't, that, isn't that implicitly

an act of empowering humility?

Like when you're brave enough, the
courage enough to think, the courage

enough to say, Hey, what am I going
to this therapist because I've

already made my decision, right?

Like that, that, that type of humility.

To, to at least embrace it.

Right.

Let's say, at least be honest with, with,
I mean, that's probably good for the,

the patient and the therapist, right?

If, if the patients are more
humble or prepared to be

humble in the process, right?

Shlomo Slatkin: Yeah, no, for sure.

Giancarlo Newsome: Yeah.

Well, um, I, um, the, are
there any, um, do you have a

favorite daily habit of humility?

That you practice or aspire to that
you would recommend to our listeners?

Shlomo Slatkin: I've never
been asked that question.

You practice.

I mean, I mean, for me, just like,
you know, part of my life is wake,

you know, waking up every morning.

The first thing I do.

Is, you know, go to the
morning prayers every day.

And that takes, you know, devoting like
an hour or more every morning to, to that.

So it's, I think that, you know,
just starting, starting off the day,

I mean, realizing that it's not all
about me and that I have to answer to

a higher power and that I have to be
grateful, have that humility of that.

You know that I woke up this morning
and that you gave me my, my soul back

today and that, um, I'm able to, to
serve you and to to be here again.

So just that acknowledgement and, and
sometimes it becomes, uh, you have to

remind that too because even if you
pray every day, you can also just, it

can just become rote and you don't, not
even thinking about what you're saying.

So, um, but just having that
built in, um, to be able to

think about that all the time.

Um.

You know, en listen to
the Jewish religion.

Like before we eat a
food, we make a blessing.

Like ev every moment of the day if we're
really conscious and intentional is really

another opportunity to be humble, to
realize, to be thankful, to be grateful.

Um, and I think that that's, you know,
something I, I wish I would do more of

it in, in all of my relationships and
to, to really be thinking more about.

The good and feeling
grateful for that 'cause.

I think that is really
what that's taking away.

That, that ego, it's really
acknowledging, acknowledging someone

else, acknowledging a higher power.

Just not about like, I'm just this,
uh, independent being that functions

on my own and don't need anything
else, but really to be grateful

for all the blessings in our lives.

I think that's a, a great
way to be humble, you know?

Yeah, I mean one of the world's words
in Hebrew for humility also is the same

root word is to, to be grateful to thank
so be when we, when we are appreciative,

when we're grateful, when we have
gratitude, that is a form of humility.

'cause we're kind of admit we're,
we're admitting, uh, and sub submitting

to something greater than ourselves.

Giancarlo Newsome: I love it.

And, you know, now I'm gonna grandstand
just a little bit, but like the

first, the first core component of
our app, the Humility app, is to

facilitate journaling and prayer.

And we, you know, even Robert F.

Kennedy Jr.

You know, I love, like the Jewish faith
is encouraging this to open the morning.

My own greatest traumatic moment.

The, the most valuable piece
of advice I received, um, from

my pastor at the time was.

Just wake up in the morning and
say, Lord, Lord, Lord, I just kind

of set, set that higher standard.

Um, even RFK Junior, he mentioned,
um, he, that's his daily habit.

Someone asked him, what's your most
important recommendation of faith?

And he says, I try to pray without
ceasing, like constantly having this.

And I love kind of how you, you
sharing that, uh, that the root, you

said the root, um, one of the root
words behind humility is gratitude.

And, and that, that, that, that kind
of discipline to see that how much, you

know, it's really pretty overwhelming.

We just chill a little bit.

Like we had nothing to do getting here.

We had nothing to do
with the air we breathe.

We have nothing to do
with the food we eat.

Like there, there is
reasons for gratitude.

Everywhere we look, if we can just chill
a little and, uh, and even every human

being around us too, if we can, uh,
enjoy like that, uh, that, that, uh.

They too have something, some
beautiful, beautiful elements.

Well, I really, really, uh, thank
you so much for sharing your

experience and your stories.

Uh, I, I really enjoyed the conversation.

Um, so, um, the, your website is the
marriage restoration project.com.

I think it's obvious I can't
strongly recommend you guys enough.

Um.

Shlomo Slatkin: Thank you.

Giancarlo Newsome: And
you know, in terms of, uh.

Uh, you know, for our listeners, if
you like the podcast, please share it.

We're, we're a startup.

This is just starting.

We love comments.

Um, please click the subscribe bell.

Please visit empowering humility.com

to learn more about how we're
trying to employ AI and Web3 tools

for good and how it may help your
company, your family, your community.

And, uh, we thank you.

Thank you.

Uh.

Uh, rabbi Slack.

Ken, I think you, you
embody empowering humility.

You are a model for bringing,
restoring humility to society.

And so thank you for, for being an
inspiration, for empowering humility, sir.

Shlomo Slatkin: Thank you, Giancarlo.

It's a pleasure being here today.

And, uh.

I wish you all the best with your, with
your podcasts and your other endeavors.

Giancarlo Newsome: Thank you, sir.

Have a good, good evening.

And hello to your wife.

And, uh, we didn't talk about your kids,
but she's got a great family and kids.

How long have you been married?

Real quick.

Uh, I mean

Shlomo Slatkin: gonna be 24
years, God willing, this summer.

Giancarlo Newsome: Congratulations.

That's amazing.

Well, and, but there's
hope for even those.

Who get remarried and
there's hope, I think.

Right.

For, for folks who are not able to
save the first marriage, there's,

there's hope to make, have a
wonderful second marriage, or third

maybe in some cases right or beyond.

Shlomo Slatkin: And sometimes people
are, you know, when they've had Achar

hard time the first time, they're more
committed the second time to get it right

Giancarlo Newsome: right.

Awesome.

Very cool.

Shlomo Slatkin: more successful.

Giancarlo Newsome: Thanks for,
thanks for the encouragement.

God bless you.

Shlomo Slatkin: Yeah.

Giancarlo Newsome: Take care.