The Empowering Humility Podcast

Dolores: Welcome to Empowering Humility,
where we're on a mission to promote human

flourishing by restoring humility as
a common denominator in society today.

Let's dive in.

Brandon Giella: Hello, and welcome
back to another episode of the

Empowering Humility Podcast.

Today we have a very fun guest.

I'm really excited for you guys to
listen to, in addition to the inevitable

ever present, Giancarlo Newsom.

Thank you for joining me again, but
the special guest today is Ernesto soi.

And.

He is the founder of the Soroi
Institute, and I want him to give us

a quick background here in a second
about what that is and his work.

Um, but today we are talking about
doing good verse, looking good.

So we are talking about how
humility plays a part in global aid.

And so, Ernesto, if you don't mind,
give us like just a few minutes

of who you are, what you do, and
why you're on the show today.

Ernesto Sirolli: Brandon, uh, I
cannot even give you one minute

per year because I'm 75 years old.

Can you imagine?

So.

Uh, what I like to say
that I was born in Italy.

Uh, I started to travel, uh, because
my father was a doctor and, uh,

his, uh, one of his posting was,
uh, uh, uh, Benghazi in Libya.

Started to work, uh, to travel
when I was eight years old.

Started to learn different
languages and, uh.

That changed me.

I never adapted to, uh,
to the Italian lifestyle,

uh, because I knew that the
world was much, much bigger.

Uh, started then to work in international
aid when I was 21 years old.

Uh, worked for the Italian, uh,
government technical cooperation

with African countries until 77.

And then, uh, I went to do a.

Uh, PhD in a, uh,
university in South Africa.

From there, I transferred to a university
in Australia and I did a PhD on this.

Uh, very strange idea.

I.

To only do international aid
in response to the needs of the

local people instead of arriving
uninvited to tell them what to do.

And um, um, some 14 years ago, I
gave a TED Talk that has gone, uh,

viral and, uh, the TED Talk, um.

Title is, if you really want to
help someone shut up and listen.

And, uh, it is because of that
TED Talk that, uh, Giancarlo

Newsom, uh, discover my work.

We have been friends since, and of
course, the idea of we Western people

shutting up and listening to, uh, local
indigenous people, African people,

Asian people, Latin American people.

is kind of extraordinary, but I
am the living proof that, uh, it

works beautifully to capture the
passion, the imagination, the

idea of local people worldwide.

Because for the last 40 years,
I have worked in 28 countries in

every continent, and we have helped
to discover the passionate idea

of local would be entrepreneurs.

We have helped to start some 65,000
companies without ever giving them

the idea, but simply responding and
facilitating what they wanted to do.

So this is, uh, my little,
my, my very brief story.

I've written two books.

I, uh, writing another book now and, um.

Uh, you know, I advocate for a complete
transformation in the way we do.

Uh, we relate with the other.

And by the other, I mean, the person
that doesn't look like us, doesn't

share our religion, does not share
our, uh, cultural background.

That's called the other.

Brandon Giella: Mm-hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: that right now we
only have two ways of dealing with

the other and the two ways, uh, we
are either patronizing or patronistic.

I believe that both are
wrong, and I believe that

it's about time that we start to respect,
listen and facilitate instead of treating

people, uh, as if they were our children.

Or as if they were our servants.

So that's me.

Giancarlo Newsome: So.

Brandon Giella: I want
to get to some of that.

What you just said I think is so
beautiful and so important, and

I want to dive into all that.

But first, how many
languages do you speak?

Ernesto Sirolli: Well, when I was in
Libya, I was, I was abl, uh, uh, I, I

went to an Italian school that taught
in Italian, taught in English, and

uh, we had Arabic, uh, was compulsory

then.

I studied, uh, French when
I was in, uh, in Italy.

Uh.

During my high school and uh,
English, and I studied German

even though it was so hard for me.

Uh, uh, and then professionally,
I spent time in Latin America.

So some I can understand Spanish, I
can, uh, you know, struggle through,

uh, in, in a Spanish, uh, um, country.

Uh, but I would say that my
second language was French.

Better than English.

When I, um, when I was a

teenager and I was invited to
join that organization of work in

Africa because I spoke French, even
though the organization never sent

me to a French speaking country.

So, So, uh, that's my story.

Um,

and, uh, uh, I don't know whether
that, that of any use to you, but.

Brandon Giella: No, no.

I just, I'm, I'm curious.

I'm, I'm very American, so I only
know a little bit of English.

Giancarlo Newsome: if I can jump in,
I just, uh, my personal connection

with Ernesto, there were two.

And I think, you know, we
all see the matrix moving.

We get the red pill.

It's like one event.

But I think that's not reality.

I think we, um, God the universe
gives us different red pill moments

that takes the blinders off our eyes.

And Ernesto's TEDx that he talked
about was one of those moments.

First it was Poverty Inc.

Which really made me go, wait
a minute, you mean because

I bought some Tom's shoes?

I, I'd never thought that that extra
pair of shoes they gave away was

taking the job away of a, of a tailor.

And, and to Ernesto's point, how
patronizing that is to think that

someone we've been making, folks been
making shoes for thousands of years.

Like, like how, how patronizing and
paternalistic, again is that behavior

and that his, and actually, you know,
it was another army, um, soldier who

introduced me to your TEDx Ernesto.

So that was really.

Uh, cool.

And by the way, our last

guest, Francesco Fazi, who is,
uh, the entrepreneur who built

Ernesto Sirolli: Ha.

Yes,

Giancarlo Newsome: early stress detection
tool, he's a friend of Ernesto and,

and Ernesto introduced me, Francesco.

So the, the circle's
complete and it's fun.

And, you know, I think in
the, um, while Ernesto's work

and, and our, you know, his.

Came out of the aid and development
world, but this idea of patronizing and

being paternalistic, it's not just in
the aid and development world that pride.

And that's why, uh, he, I'd say,
Ernesto, you very much inspired the

whole awakening of this is, this is
an, a movement of humility and um,

but it doesn't apply just to aid work.

It applies everywhere.

Like even the way we listen in a

domestic market, in a
modern market, it has value.

But anyhow, I'll turn it back over
to you, Brandon, but I thought the

audience might appreciate knowing.

Hey Giancarlo, how'd you meet Ernesto?

And it's been fun.

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

I, I, the, that relationship is so
important of why is he even on the show.

Um, but yes, no, I, I'm very curious,
uh, Ernesto, if you could talk a little

bit about what you were talking to
Giancarlo and me before we started

recording about humility, and I,
I think you had this really lovely

definition of how you see humility.

What does it mean to you?

How would you define that to somebody?

Ernesto Sirolli: Yeah,
humility is not being.

Survival means that you make
yourself small out of fear,

so you become a yes man.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: That's not being
humble, uh, that is, uh, to be a coward.

I.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: To be
humble is different.

To be humble is recognizing that the
person in front of you is an extraordinary

human being with extraordinary gifts,
and maybe these gifts are not expressed.

Maybe these gifts are being repressed.

Maybe the person in front of
you is a victim of a victim.

I, I like to say that we are all
victims of victims because our

parents, for instance, do realize
that all our parents, for the people

born after the Second World War, they
were, uh, people with post-traumatic

stress, but they were untreated.

So we are all victims of of parents.

Who struggled through the
war, through depression.

They were, uh, uh, people who
nowadays we will call traumatized.

So, um, I know when I look at somebody
and I see maybe fear or hang, uh,

anger or even hatred, I look at
them in the eye and I say, the

poor guy, what has happened to you?

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: For you to be so
traumatized that you fear other

people, you fear other human beings.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: What kind of,
uh, baggage are you carrying?

What kind of insecurity?

What kind of dread, what
has happened to you?

So, you know, I come from, um, a
family of physicians, uh, in Italy.

Uh, and I was.

Uh, absolutely blown away
when I discovered, um.

Uh, growth psychology, you know,
humanistic psychology because for

the humanistic psychologist, the most
important person in the meeting is

not the doctor, it's the patient.

So, car Roger used to say, I.

I look at the person and I start
to listen to the person with this

absolute, I'm in awe of people.

I listen to them, I look at them in
the eye, and then the only thing I

do, I try to remove the obstacle that
are stopping the person from growing.

I don't do, I don't do
anything to the person.

The, I don't touch the brain.

I don't give a

a pill.

I don't try to calm the anxiety.

I simply notice from outside
that there are lots of obstacles

surrounding the person.

So I ask question to say, you know, every
time you talk about your mother, you cry.

Why?

Every

time you all the sudden the
person says, no, I don't.

They said, well.

How come, you know, you in 15 minutes,
you have mentioned your mother five times.

What is, what's hap what
happened with your mom?

What happened with your father?

And all of a sudden you remove the
obstacle, but you remove the obstacle

so that the person can keep growing.

And

so what we believe, what I, what the
reason why I am so in love with people.

It's because profoundly I know
that every single human being

has a dream to improve himself,

improve herself.

Giancarlo Newsome: you

Ernesto Sirolli: We are wonderful.

A wonderful, wonderful.

Giancarlo Newsome: One of
the, one of the, the themes

that I, I've had some people push back
on me on, but you just represented

it, is that when I bring up empowering
humility, I get like this immediate like.

Um, reaction where some people, they just
immediately, like, they, they cringe.

They, they feel like I'm
about to shackle them.

I'm like, no, that the
empower, humility is

your liberation.

It's, it's

the root of freedom.

So when you're talking about
those obstacles that Carl Rogers,

like all he's doing, he's just
helping us unlock those things.

And that's, and that's
what I love with you.

And, and those who

Ernesto Sirolli: Yes,

absolutely.

Giancarlo Newsome: embrace
their, their not even weaknesses,

just their uniqueness.

Right.

It allows you to embrace others.

I mean, the freedom is beautiful.

It's, it's so liberating, you know?

Ernesto Sirolli: Is it, uh, is Ken,
uh, I, I, I like to tell the story.

Ken Robertson in, uh, one of his TED Talk
tells the story about this little girl.

Uh, the teacher is, is, uh, given
to all the, the little kids piece

of paper and, and, and some crayons.

And they said, draw whatever you want.

So she goes around and she
sees this little girl and

says, oh, what are you drawing?

And she says, I'm drawing God.

And the teacher says, but
nobody knows what God looks

like.

And the girl says, give me
10 minutes and I'll show you.

She says, I'm drawing God.

I'm going to show you what it looks like.

Give me 10 minutes.

And, uh, the same thing with me.

I have, uh, somebody in
the community said to me.

Oh, don't work with that
person because that person has

been a failure all his life.

He is.

He is.

a bankrupt.

Yeah.

And I said, yeah, because he
didn't have me helping him.

Giancarlo Newsome: Huh.

Wow.

Ernesto Sirolli: Wait until, wait until,

so gimme 10 minutes and I'll show you
that the poor guy, the only reason

why he failed all his life is because
nobody, you know, uh, helped him.

Nobody said to him, you
making a wonderful product.

Can you sell it?

No, I hate selling it.

Okay, let's find somebody in
the village who likes to sell,

who will take your product to the market.

Do you understand money?

No, I don't understand anything.

Let's find somebody who's
prepared one hour, one hour a

month to help you with the books

and so 65,000 business, but we don't
know how many hundreds of thousands

of people, I can tell you that we.

Every night I go to sleep thinking,
I wonder how many people's

lives have been changed by one
of my enterprise facilitators.

'cause the way we do development, we
train a local person in the village.

I.

Who then for free, any confidence
pay by a third party, the government,

the foundation, a corporation
works with all these people

who have always failed and they

failed because the poor guys, they did not
know that you cannot run a business alone.

You need the three different characters.

Somebody who

loves to go to the market, somebody
who likes to toil in the garden,

and somebody who likes the numbers.

So simple.

It's ridiculous.

We

never listen.

We never listen.

We ne we never, we, we don't, you know,
we should, you know, there is a Rumi,

the philosopher who says there are a
million ways to kneel in front of the sun.

And they say there are a million
ways to kneel in front of people.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Giancarlo Newsome: Mm.

That's

Ernesto Sirolli: of being
absolutely blown away by the beauty.

The beauty, all my, you know, I, uh, all
my friends in, in min in, when I came

to America, I was invited by a professor
of rural development in rural Minnesota.

So all my friends are from the Midwest.

And do you think that I had ever
met somebody that I did not like?

I work, you know, on my board we have
Democrats and Republican working together.

They all adore what we do.

For completely different reasons.

For

the Republicans, what we
do is patriotic because

this is the way America was
created by entrepreneurship.

And the Democrats love it because we
don't, don't dis we help anyone, anybody

because

Brandon Giella: I think
it's because it's so human.

I mean, I think what you're
tapping into is that it's such

a human principle, like what you

Ernesto Sirolli: Yeah,

Brandon Giella: is that anything.

Ernesto Sirolli: it's, it's, humble
because you kneel in front of people.

You look at them to say,
wow, you really do this.

And you know, you, I heard stories about
farmers in the Midwest in January with

the temperature is minus 20 going to
the field and try to lift this calf that

is as half frozen and he puts it on his
back and he drags this calf into, uh,

in and faults with a face in the mud.

These are real people.

How can you not love them?

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Giancarlo Newsome: but Ernesto is
not now gonna be, uh, the pessimist.

How so?

You, you gave an, uh, before we

got on you, you gave an
analogy of what you said.

You talked about the bird.

You know, we, we, we show the feathers,
but we don't show the bird we killed.

How, how do we, how do we get,
how do people get consumed

with looking good and ignored?

Doing good.

Ernesto Sirolli: Well, it is their loss.

They don't even understand the beauty
of, uh, look, uh, quite frankly, there is

nothing like helping another human being.

It is in our gene for forever.

Um.

The most powerful entity in the world
is a group of humans working together.

Imagine that we are so, uh, weak
physically, but do you realize that

the most scary, ferocious animals.

They only live now
because of our goodwill.

Do you realize that we naked
monkeys have tamed the most

ferocious animals in the world?

They only exist because
we allow them to exist.

There's never been.

One person, one tyrant, that never
been anybody who has been able

to stop a group of us in history.

We are the most extraordinary,
powerful creatures, and so I, I

look at the people who think that
they can control us with pity.

They have no idea what's
gonna happen to them.

I would never put myself in a
situation where, really do you realize,

did you realize what the power of
just a group of us historically?

So my point is, I, when I see
people who have to do something.

To demonstrate their, uh, quality.

When, you know, I, I'm
thinking, wow, really?

You have to demonstrate.

And, uh, so I consider humility, uh, the
humility of Nelson Mandela because now.

Imagine that he did not, you
know, exercise or revenge.

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: So to me, Mandela is a
man of and is the virtue, the pre-Socratic

virtue of a man or a woman who knows

what is right and what is wrong himself.

So imagine pre Christianity, thousands
of years before Christ, the way people

who, uh, behave in a certain way, only
because was dictated by the unconscious.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: So the externalities.

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

You know, you can, you
know, um, try to be.

Uh, try to be seen as a person of success.

But what we learned
from psychology is this.

When you look at yourself in
the mirror, you can all lie.

So you can imagine the situation where
you, um, uh, try to appear successful.

And then, you know, in your
hearts of hearts that you not,

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: and there are people
who would give everything they have.

Uh, if they could claim a, uh, noble past,

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: they would
give everything they have.

Yeah, if they would, uh,
claim that in the eyes of the

public, they are noble spirits.

They give anything,

Brandon Giella: Which goes back
to you have self-respect before

you can respect others that

Ernesto Sirolli: you cannot respect
others if you have no self respect.

You

cannot love others if you don't,
if you don't love yourself.

So it is already an illusion.

So humility, uh, is the humility of
somebody that when looks at you in, okay,

I'll tell you, this is a true story.

Uh.

We had people for dinner in my
house in California, and we always

ask some, uh, fun questions.

And the question that that night
was, who is being the greatest

celebrity you have ever met?

And so somebody had met,
uh, you know, uh, uh.

Um, uh, one of the, uh, uh, Mick
Jagger in, in a, uh, in a, uh, hotel,

uh, you know, uh, uh, uh, lift.

The other one had met, I had met,
uh, I had not met, I had encountered

physically Salvador Dali when I was

19 in Barcelona, and I described meetings
and one of the people at, uh, during said.

I had tea with Nelson Mandela

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: and
we said, okay, you won.

Now you have to describe, and we said.

What, what happened?

She said, well, I had a friend who
worked for him, so he said to me,

would you like to meet Nelson Mandela?

And I said, absolutely.

But I did not expect that
it was just the three of us

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: in
Nelson house having tea.

So I said, oh my God.

So what did you ask?

You know what, you know what great wisdom?

He says?

No, no, no.

He, he, he only wanted to know about me.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: What

Brandon Giella: hmm,

Ernesto Sirolli: Nelson Mandela
wanted to know about him, he was 27.

Brandon Giella: hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: The entire
conversation was about him,

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: dreams.

Can you imagine the going to the
White House being invited and

having a conversation where you.

Nobody.

You is the center of attention.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: Who
is the greatest leader?

So my point is, come on guys.

Humility is not a survival attitude
where you are scared to talk.

Remember the beautiful poem
by Marianne Williamson.

You know, uh, your, our
greatest fear is not our light.

Uh, uh, our, you know, uh, shadow.

Our greatest fear is our light.

Our greatest fear is how powerful we are,

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

That

Ernesto Sirolli: to place mold
doesn't, doesn't benefit anybody.

So it's not about playing
small, it's about really being

able, uh, have be such a.

A whole person to have worked so
much on yourself that you really,

really took pity of yourself.

You embraced the kid, you, you
embraced the traumatized a life

because we all have traumas and then
you recognize those traumas in others.

So humility is, I know
how hard it is my friend.

You don't have to, you
don't have to tell me.

And, and I have, I don't know what's
happening with me, but Martha says, oh

my God, Ernesto, you, you really call
for the people who are suffering because

you, we stop in a cafe in the middle
of New Zealand, rural New Zealand.

And there was this guy who came to talk
to me, to talk to me about East East.

What he was, uh, facing.

The, and the guy I was having
a coffee was first time.

I will never be in that village.

And this guy came to talk to
me about his personal problem

because I look people in the eye.

You know what they

say in the army?

Don't you ever look your enemy
in the eye because you will

never be able to kill them.

Brandon Giella: Hmm.

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Ernesto Sirolli: so what I said to
people is that look at people in the eye.

That's humility.

Don't arrive in a place and look at
that because they're black people.

You don't make eye contact
because they're Asian.

You don't make contact
because they're gay.

You don't make contact.

You know, you look at people in the eye.

That's the beginning of humility.

Giancarlo Newsome: Hmm.

Brandon Giella: I, what I'm hearing from
you is, first of all, a very powerful

human principle, as I was saying earlier
and, and clearly others have too.

Your TED talk has over
800,000 views on YouTube.

This is

Ernesto Sirolli: 4 million actually

in

Brandon Giella: 4 million May maybe total.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, uh, just in the, the video that
I saw, 800,000, but 4 million total

across all the different channels,

Ernesto Sirolli: No, the Ted the
Ted, uh, platform, uh, is 4 million.

And so with the, with the
YouTube, we are about 5 million.

But what what is important to me
is, is something else about the

TED Talk is I thought that I was
addressing a very specialized,

tiny little field of endeavor.

Instead, now I have calls from people to
say, I saw your TED talk and it changed

the way I relate with my teenager son.

Brandon Giella: Wow.

I love

Ernesto Sirolli: Shut up and listen.

You know who the hell you think you are.

They have problems they are
trying to find themselves.

What is the humility, is
really, starts with respect.

So respect, I think is
the, is the key word.

if you humble, you respect people, I
search once for the etymology of the

word humble and it come from the soil,

so of the soil.

And you know,

in Italian, uh, we don't have, uh, any
negative connotation later is mother.

Lara, that's the word for soil.

But Lara is what gives us life.

So it's not dirt.

We, we don't have anything in
Italy that is negative about Lara.

I.

Uh, uh, the French for the
French terroir is what gives

the grapes the unique flavor.

Oh my God.

The terroir is like not only Mother Earth,
but it's a, is a, is a giving mother.

So I think that, uh, in that sense, uh, to
say that somebody who come from the earth.

It's humble of humble origin.

I really think that in that
connotation, uh, I would like to um,

say that we are all born in the dirt.

You know, we all born in, uh, in blood.

We are all born in, uh, um, you know.

In a very humble way.

That's, that's our nature.

So the idea that somehow you can
escape that fate, no, you can't.

You can't.

And, um, so I don't know, it's
a little bit philosophical.

I,

I don't know whether this

Brandon Giella: this

is great.

I feel like we haven't covered so
many things that I wanted to cover.

Uh, this is great.

Okay, so we have just a few minutes left.

I'm, I'm curious, Ernesto, I have
one question for you in one minute.

In one minute.

What would you say to somebody who
has ambition, who ha, who wants to.

Let's say go out and change the world.

Who wants to do development work?

Who wants to be a philanthropist?

Who wants to change other people,
whether they're a therapist or a

mother, or whatever it might be, and
they're afraid of seeming arrogant.

And so there's this, 'cause
what you're describing is like

this two way street to humility.

First, you have to be humble yourself.

You have to take the position of
being a humble person and then

you have to approach others in
humility and work out whatever

their challenge is in a humble way.

But to, to do really hard work, you have
to be not arrogant, but ambition driven.

You have to have some kind of,
you know, uh, courageous optimism.

How do you, how, how do you be that kind
of person, but do it in a humble way.

What advice would you say to
somebody who's young, who has

these big dreams and wants to

Ernesto Sirolli: Uh, uh, uh,
it is happening right now.

I have people writing to me
to say, I'm working for a.

Uh, foundation and we are doing work
in Africa and we are going to arrive

there and we are giving them internet
and, uh, solar panels and, and so

I have lots of people doing that.

And, and my point is that be
incredibly, uh, uh, what you do that

is one part is education and one part
is, uh, responding to local needs.

So what you do, speak at every single
conference, tell everybody what you wish

to do, and then wait a way to be invited.

Only work by, uh, in response.

So what

you do, you, you do lots of educating.

You go around, you speak at conference and

you say, look, we, uh, you know,
we help people by doing this,

this, and that, and then go away.

Uh, because when you do that, then you
receive a telephone call from the ccb,

from the leader of that, uh, tribe that
says, look, we, this is a real case,

uh, in, uh, in, uh, um, uh, in Chile,
uh, somebody, uh, the CHE leader.

Uh, got in touch with me to say, you
know what, we will like, uh, we have

some forestry, we have some, uh, we
produce some renewable, uh, timber.

What we will like is to have some
electricity, maybe with some solar panels,

and we would do not want electricity
in the houses, in the private houses.

We would like to put a, uh, a array
of panels on top of the one factory

that is manufacturing this, uh.

Income for the village and we

would like to have some
electric machinery.

Uh, that's why we need electricity.

But we don't want to have electricity
in all the houses because there is

no demand.

We are quite happy the way
with the traditional way.

So my point is that go around the
world, tell everybody what you want to

do, what you are prepared to do, and
then go away and wait to be invited.

Because imagine the alter.

Imagine if doctors.

Would stop people in, in the
street to say, you are pale.

I don't like the way you look.

Uh, you are overweight.

People will say, go away.

What are you talking about?

It's

my

Giancarlo Newsome: give you a shot.

Ernesto Sirolli: you are
stopping me in the street.

See?

So my point is that you see, so
a very simple, we can educate as

much as we want, but then we have
to have the decency of going away

because we are not missionaries.

We don't believe that our
way is better than their way.

I wish I had a kid that's is, was
so fantastic as this little Mexican

kid or the, the kids that I've
seen in the mountains of ne Nepal.

I wish, you know, we were so fortunate.

So my point is that who, who the
humility is to say who the hell we think.

Uh,

we are to go uninvited, enter
a house uninvited to teach the

person how to educate her daughter.

How dare we see?

How dare we, that's humility to say,
to understand that there is so much

beauty, so much wisdom, so much culture,
uh, that is different from our culture.

But so what could be ,better?

Giancarlo Newsome: but you know, Ernesto
and Brandon, to wrap up here, I, I wanna

put a challenge out to anyone who's a
corporate leader or institutional leader.

Um, when you look in the mirror,
like Ernesto said, if you have

a hard time looking in the eye
of that person in the mirror.

Don't be threatened by that.

Embrace that discomfort and just know
that's, that's that quiet calling to

humble yourself because all the corporate
leaders that let's say are, are sending

equipment, sending money, sending help
where it's not wanted and welcome.

We know you, we can't look in
the mirror and be proud of that.

Even this week in some of my work, uh,
you know, it was, I had a frustrating

situation where it's still happening
way too much and I think it's hard

to live with ourselves when we,
when our conscious tells us that

ultimately we're exploiting others.

And I think the root of pride.

Is ultimately death.

I, you know, it, it is strange.

Ernest, Ernest, not to get philosophical,
but I, I remember this venture

capitalist that I helped find a bio,
a wonderful congress from wonderful

people who took great advantage.

They were the, the epitome
of vulture capital.

He ended up committing suicide
'cause he couldn't look

himself in the, in the mirror.

I, I, I say he, he succumbed to pride.

And even if you don't succumb to
suicide, you can, I think, to help me

to look in the mirror and feel good.

I think we all saw the joy, Brandon,
that, that Ernesto had someone who

embodies empowering humility, who,
who knows that it's just, who sees

the beauty in every human being.

Because first, like you mentioned, we
acknowledge it in ourselves, but I,

I really think that we have a little
bit of a crisis of, of humility.

A lot of our corporate leadership,
especially in America where we've, we've,

we've kind of sold ourselves on certain
areas of success at the expense of others.

And I, I know a lot of folks
like me and I, I can confess,

I think I was one of those.

So I just wanted to give a
challenge that, you know, empowering

humility may be a little hard at
first, but boy, when you finally.

Embrace it and you can finally realize
you don't have to have all the answers.

Every other human being
is as valuable as you.

And how kind of exciting and
creative it is to, to, to discover

the beauty of every human being.

It's, it's, it's a ball of fun.

Every time I talk to Ernesto,
I just have so much fun.

So thank you, Ernesto.

I hope, uh, to my corporate friends
who are, who are wearing the golden

handcuffs, I remember talking about that.

Um, embrace humility and, uh,
Brandon, any other thoughts?

Brandon Giella: Well, all I can
say is I'm very glad that Giancarlo

invited you to this podcast so that
we could have this conversation.

Thank you so much for your
wisdom, your expertise.

I know you've been doing this
for 40 years, speaking in front

of literally millions of people
now, 65,000 organizations.

Incredible work.

Thank you, Ernesto.

Ernesto Sirolli: Bye-bye.

Was lovely speaking to
you, Brandon Giancarlo.

We will be in touch soon.

Uh, absolutely.

Lovely to speak to you about this
kind of topics which are really,

really, really important in this time.

There are too many people who are lost.

Uh, they don't know
who to believe anymore.

They don't know how to live, and
they have to start to look inward.

And do some, some work on themselves
first, uh, free themselves.

Liberate yourself.

Start to have a little bit
of compassion for yourself.

Uh, start to, uh, come to a point
where you can love yourself.

Giancarlo Newsome: Amen.

Thank you Dr.

Oli.

Brandon Giella: here.

Ernesto Sirolli: Okay.

Giancarlo Newsome: Thanks, Brandon.

Ernesto Sirolli: guys.

Brandon Giella: Bye.

See you.

Thank you.

Ernesto Sirolli: Bye-bye.